Counter-Terrorism Bill

My Lords, we welcome the Government’s acceptance that post-charge questioning should be authorised by a judge of the Crown Court or his equivalents in Scotland and Northern Ireland. That move by the Government is very welcome, but we take the view that the concession is too limited. The Government’s amendment allows the judge to, "““impose such conditions as appear to be necessary in the interests of justice, which may include conditions as to the place where the questioning is to be carried out””." The noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd of Berwick, eloquently set out the limitations of that concession. We on these Benches consider that post-charge questioning will be helpful and useful, but we also believe that the process must have integrity. It is difficult to see how judges will be able to exercise proper judicial supervision, which is what we are seeking, if they are not able to have any authority in relation to the scope of the questioning. The concession seems to vitiate the core that one would like to see there. It is a move in a direction that does not go far enough. I want to link this point to the revised draft PACE codes that the Minister sent us on Thursday. We had a look at them; to my surprise, they are much less detailed than the previous versions, which is not what I was expecting. It would be helpful if the Minister could explain why. It is important that the PACE codes list the safeguards that will guide post-charge questioning to prevent it becoming oppressive, but in doing that they need to make a clear statement, as the Act will, that post-charge questioning must not take place near or during the defendant’s trial. That is not there. Can the Minister say that he intends that those safeguards will apply to post-charge questioning as they already apply to pre-charge questioning? I think his answer will be yes, but I would like confirmation of that. More generally, we are not entirely happy with where we now seem to be coming out, because the Government are proposing two things simultaneously: disallowing the judge from determining the scope of police questioning, and curtailing the guidance in the PACE codes about the rules under which the police would conduct such questioning. I have to say that that move is in precisely the wrong direction. I am certain that the aim of this House is not to hamper the police in their duties, but to create public confidence in the way that they carry them out. I therefore support the amendment of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd.