Counter-Terrorism Bill

My Lords, I do not have those statistics with me but shall certainly inform the noble Baroness of them in writing. Taken together with the post of the independent reviewer of terrorism legislation and the other safeguards which I will come on to in a minute, I believe that we already have sufficient safeguards in place to ensure that detainees have appropriate support and that that supports effective community confidence in policing and engages the local community in scrutinising the detention of persons held in police custody. That is an important little strand of our prevention strategy and we must ensure that we reinforce it and make it even stronger. Safeguards on the detention and treatment of terrorist suspects are set out in Schedule 8 to the Terrorism Act 2000. In addition, Code H of the codes of practice issued under the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 covers the detention, treatment and questioning by police officers of persons under Section 41 of and Schedule 8 to the Terrorism Act 2000. This makes clear the need to ensure that appropriate and respectful treatment is provided to all detainees. Appropriate action is required to be taken to support the person; to help minimise any additional risk arising from their situation or vulnerability; and to provide appropriate facilities or materials to meet any specific requirements. Detained suspects have the right to legal advice; must be held in cells that are adequately heated, cleaned and ventilated; have the opportunity for exercise; may be visited by friends and family; have access to writing materials; are allowed the opportunity to practise religious observance; and are medically examined daily. As has been said, continued detention is subject to the authorisation of a senior judge at least every seven days. In February 2006 the Home Office and the Association of Chief Police Officers, in conjunction with Centrex, now known as the National Policing Improvement Agency, published Guidance on the Safer Detention and Handling of Persons in Police Custody. The guidance identifies the standards expected in the handling of persons who come into contact with the police. It outlines the framework within which the police and other agencies must operate and sets the strategic mechanisms which should be in place to deliver the required outcomes. It aims to provide the practitioner with practical support, advice and direction in raising the standards of custodial care and enhancing the treatment of persons in custody. Implementation of the guidance in each force area is subject to oversight by the National Policing Improvement Agency, the Association of Chief Police Officers and the Home Office. In January 2008, an accompanying training package for custody officers was published. Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary and Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Prisons jointly carry out inspections of police custody. The inspection process aims to provide a regime of planned inspections on the efficiency and effectiveness of police forces and the provision of custody facilities. Up to nine inspections will be carried out during 2008, and thereafter there will be a programme of inspecting custody suites in 10 force areas over the next five years. As the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd, said, suspects held beyond 14 days are generally transferred to prison where they are subject to oversight by Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Prisons. The purpose of HMIP is to provide independent scrutiny of the conditions for and treatment of prisoners and other detainees and its role includes unannounced inspections. The noble Lord, Lord Carlile of Berriew, in his capacity as the independent reviewer of terrorism legislation, also reports annually on the operation of counterterrorism legislation, including pre-charge detention. The amendment proposes that part of such a commissioner’s role would be an entitlement to attend extension hearings to give the judge such assistance as he may require. The noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd, mentioned ex parte hearings. They are not closed hearings and only a very small part is ex parte. They are also extremely rare; I think there have only ever been two such cases. I do not believe the provision is necessary because the suspect is entitled to his own legal representation. I attended one of these events and it was quite a ding-dong battle. The CPS, which is expert in investigatory proceedings, gave the judge all the information that it felt he required about how the investigation was proceeding and why further detention time was necessary. The noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd, spoke about anecdotal evidence concerning a trial where people could have been charged much earlier than after 27 days had elapsed. I think that it is dangerous to use such anecdotal evidence and I do not believe that it is true at all. I have great faith that our police service proceeds as fast as it can to get to a charge. Although I can see that that view is not necessarily held by some noble Lords, my feeling is that the service does try to push forward as quickly as it can. The information provided during extension proceedings through representations and evidence is extensive. The suspect’s lawyer is able to cross-examine the investigating officer to challenge the application vigorously, as happened in the one that I attended. A senior judge oversees the proceedings and ensures that the tests for further detention are satisfied before any extension is granted. That also was done in the one that I attended. I also have faith in our senior judges. Maybe that faith is ill-placed, as a number of people seem to think that that is not sufficient, but I was very impressed by what I saw. I have now listened to a large number of noble and learned and very experienced lawyers speak on this. Although I was originally minded to resist the amendment absolutely, I think that I might now like to take it away. I cannot give a timescale, but there may be merit in going down that route. I have talked with the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd, about this in the past. He sort of convinced me about 12 months ago, but I sort of became unconvinced again. As I say, however, it is important to put on the record how amazingly well we take care of these people and look after them. I do get fed up with people when they have a go at the police and our judiciary about what they do and how these people are looked after. I find it really quite dreadful, and it comes out again and again. I shall not resist the amendment, but I should like to see how it could be implemented in timescales. There is clearly a feeling that the provision is necessary. The Government want to do their best in looking after people, but also their best in looking after the security and safety of our nation. Sometimes that is an extremely difficult balance. If I may, therefore, I shall move ahead on that basis.