Counter-Terrorism Bill

moved Amendment No. 1: 1: Clause 1, page 2, line 19, leave out subsection (4) and insert— ““( ) A constable has the same powers of seizure in relation to a document removed under this section as the constable would have if it had not been removed (and if anything discovered on examination after removal had been discovered without it having been removed).”” The noble Lord said: My Lords, before I speak on the detail of Amendment No. 1, I draw noble Lords’ attention to the amendments which I tabled yesterday. These amendments deal with financial restrictions in relation to countries where money laundering, terrorist finance and the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction are a cause for concern. I apologise for tabling these amendments so late in the parliamentary process, but I hope that there will be ample time to debate and scrutinise them on day two of Report next Tuesday. My noble friend Lord Myners will deal with the detail of this issue in the Chamber next week. He has written to all Members who have taken part in the debate on the Bill so far, and he and his officials are happy to provide any further information that noble Lords may require in advance of that debate. My approach to the Bill from the start has been to try to reach a compromise where possible on the various proposals. I have tried where possible to meet concerns expressed and to incorporate, where appropriate, all the excellent points made about the Bill, because it is important to deal with matters of national security consensually where at all possible. I have made compromises and adjustments where I could, and I am sure that as a result some of the provisions in the Bill will be in better shape when they leave the Chamber than when they came to it. When I stand at the Dispatch Box, other Members of the House often ask me to remember that, although they might oppose something that the Government are doing, they have the welfare and safety of this nation just as much at heart as we do. I have always been very fulsome in my regard for that because I believe it to be true, but I also ask the House to remember that the Government are very interested in human rights and in looking after the freedom of individuals. That should also be acknowledged. We are not doing this to try to bear down on those things, and we do not take lightly some of the measures that we sometimes have to introduce. That is important to remember. Amendment No. 1 is a small example of what we have done to compromise. During the debate on the provisions in Clauses 1 to 9 on the power to remove documents, a number of your Lordships expressed concern that Clause 1(4), although essential to the functioning of the power, could be drafted to be more readily understandable. At that point in the debate, I agreed to take the clause away and work with the parliamentary counsel to redraft the clause if at all possible. Clause 1 is vital to the functioning of the power to remove documents, as it sets out the powers of seizure available to an officer after a document has been removed, examined and found to pass the threshold for seizure. Once a document is removed following the search of premises, the original seizure powers no longer apply because they exist only while the constable is actually on the premises. We therefore need a provision in the Bill to spell out that, where the reasonable belief test is met following examination of the document after it has been removed from the premises, a constable may indeed seize that document. That is what Clause 1(4) does. Should an officer exercise one of the search powers in Clause 1(1) and find a document which he is not sure reaches the threshold for seizure, the power in Clause 1 enables him to remove the document to the police station or another place so that it may be examined further. Once back at the police station, the document is examined further and the officer realises that it is of interest. That is when Clause 1(4) kicks in. Were we not to have such a provision, the officer would not be able to seize the document. Instead, as a result of Clause 1(4), the officer has the same powers of seizure as he would if the seizure threshold were crossed when he exercised the initial search power. We have not changed the functioning of this clause from the one that appeared in Committee. Rather, following the concerns that noble Lords expressed during that debate, we have tried to redraft it to be much more understandable. I beg to move.