Planning Bill

moved Amendment No. 210: 210: Clause 50, page 28, line 18, at end insert— ““( ) The applicant shall pay the recipient’s reasonable costs of complying with the notice.”” The noble Earl said: Clause 50(2) states: "““The Commission may authorise the applicant to serve a notice on a person””" to give the applicant in writing the name and address of all those with an interest in the land in question. Clause 50 goes on to state that the recipient of the notice commits an offence if he does not supply accurate information within 14 days and will be liable to pay a level 5 fine, which I understand to be £5,000. We have no problem with the need for the applicant to find out all those with an interest in the land in question, but this clause creates an onus, in supplying that information, on any of those listed in subsection (3). It could be an occupier, freeholder, mortgagee, lessee, receiver of rent or those who manage or arrange the letting of the land. Our Amendment No. 210 states: "““The applicant shall pay the recipient’s reasonable costs of complying with the notice””." This amendment was moved by my honourable friend Robert Neill in another place, but the Minister, John Healey, replied: "““The only type of information that may be obtained using that power is a person’s name and address. In those circumstances, I think that the hon. Gentleman accepts that the costs of compliance are likely to be negligible””.—[Official Report, Commons, Planning Bill Committee, 24/1/08; col. 433.]" Unfortunately, the matter was not pressed further. If only it were that simple. We know that property law and ownership in this country are far from simple. Let me give the Committee one example. A pensioner is the freehold owner of a property which he converted into flats in the 1980s. He let all the flats on long leases and subsequently there have been many sub-leases of each flat. How on earth does he supply the accurate names and addresses of the current interested parties within 14 days so as not to be fined £5,000? In the real world, I suggest, with great difficulty. He might remember who the original lessees were, but more likely he will have to contact his professional adviser, maybe his lawyer, at a cost—and we know that lawyers charge like wounded buffalos. He might also have to incur the cost of searches at the Land Registry, but we also know that not all interests in land are registered. The recipient of a notice, through no fault of his own, can have huge difficulties and costs in complying with the requirements of this clause. I suggest that, other than in the simplest of inquiries, there may well be costs involved which would be onerous on the affected recipient of the notice, regardless of whether the project goes ahead or not, but peanuts for the applicants who, after all, will be large organisations. Meanwhile, poor Joe Bloggs the pensioner might be fined £5,000 if he does not provide accurate information within 14 days, on top of the costs that he may already have incurred. No doubt other Members of this Committee will be able to cite far more complex examples of the time and cost involved in providing this accurate information. That brings me on to our Amendment No. 211, which would increase the number of days to comply with the notice from 14 to 28. We can all give examples of why 14 days might be too short a time. The recipient of the notice might be on holiday, in hospital or away on work commitments; or, indeed, the recipient’s professional advisers—lawyer or agent—might be away for similar reasons. More importantly, however, because of the sheer complexity of and complications in ascertaining the ownership or interests in a property, in the real world it may be physically impossible to comply with the notice in 10 working days. I hope that the Minister will agree that an extra 10 working days is not unreasonable. To use the earlier analogy of my noble friend Lord Jenkins, when he said that he wished we could get a response to our letters to Ministers within 28 days, in this clause Ministers are only giving themselves 14 days to reply to letters or risk a fine of £5,000. I beg to move.