Planning Bill

I am extremely grateful for this very thoughtful debate on a matter of absolutely central interest to this Chamber. I am very grateful to my noble friend for setting out better than I could much of the case that I will make. I am particularly grateful to him for raising the notion of moral authority going beyond this narrow definition of a vote in either House and referring to the whole integrity of the process that we are trying to establish for national policy statements. I want to address the issues raised on the relationship between parliamentary scrutiny and approval. I am very aware of business waiting, so I shall try to be concise. We stated very clearly that we are committed to a stronger role for Parliament in scrutinising the national policy statements; we have formalised the process to allow for that. I am very grateful to noble Lords for recognising what went into the construction of that process. I shall describe it briefly, because it is unique and innovative. Although national policy statements are going to be important and innovative, they are ultimately documents of policy. They set out government policy and ministerial accountability. They are not primary or secondary legislation but a new sort of parliamentary instrument. The nearest analogy that we can make is that they are similar in many ways to planning documents or White Papers, and certainly they are not subject to parliamentary approval. Although both the noble Lords, Lord Jenkin and Lord Turnbull, chided me for saying that we were in new territory, I do not resile from that. The examples that they give are genuinely different; they are specific and partial within the context of some rather broad legislation. National policy statements are different; they are broad and the first of their kind, much wider in scope and more significant in depth. They bring into question the relationship between the role of government in making policy as a whole and the role of Parliament in scrutinising things. We blur the distinction between the role of Parliament and the Executive at our peril, and I think that this is a step much too far. I commend what my honourable friend said in the other House about why we do not believe a vote of approval is necessary or appropriate. I shall backtrack and explain the journey that we have made in this Bill towards parliamentary accountability and scrutiny, because it is unique. When the Planning Bill was first introduced, we made a commitment to provide a stronger role for Parliament. The other place was encouraged to consider setting up a Select Committee as part of that process, possibly drawn from the expertise of the four relevant departmental committees, but it was always acknowledged that it was for the House itself to decide what procedures were appropriate for each NPS. Together with the chairs of the Select Committees, over a considerable amount of time, Ministers have worked out a possible process for Commons committee examination of national policy statements, either by one of the relevant existing departmental Select Committees or a single new committee drawn from their membership. The committee would examine the draft national policy statement in a timeframe largely parallel to that for public consultation, and it would report to the House with recommendations, including whether the issues merited debate on the Floor of either House. The Government would make time available for debate in each House, if the committee recommended it. The period for parliamentary scrutiny would continue for four to six weeks beyond the close of public consultation, to enable the Select Committee to take any additional account that might be necessary of the significant issues likely to be raised during public consultations. Ministers have undertaken to ensure that briefing and information on those issues is made available to the Select Committees to enable them to do this. That is a credible, rigorous and unique process. Ministers would then consider what change was needed to the draft NPS in the light of the views of the Commons committee, and, significantly, in respect of any resolution of either House and public consultation. They would lay a Statement setting out their response before Parliament and revise the draft proposals as appropriate before laying the final version of the NPS. This House will be fully involved. If we are searching for moral authority, we find it in the equivalence of both Houses. The procedure has taken time and effort to agree, because it has been so carefully worked out. It is a thorough and robust scrutiny process. It recognises the nature and expertise of the departmental Select Committees in the other place and their long history in holding departments to account. It acknowledges that regard must be had to the views of either House, speaking, as it were, collectively. The noble Lord said that the Government had only a duty to respond, but that is a powerful obligation to place on them. This procedure will allow Parliament to look at each detail of policy and make recommendations that Ministers will have to take into account before laying the final policy statement. That will help to ensure that the provisions are the right ones, and take into account the full range of issues that should be captured. It will also ensure that NPSs are widely seen as authoritative statements of policy, appropriate for the roles that have been set for them. In terms of this House, our expertise and commitment are recognised in the fact that time will be made for a debate and for any resolution of this House. Before dealing with particular amendments, let me first address the other amendments in the group, relating to timing and sequencing. In Amendment No. 81, the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, would like the ““relevant period”” for scrutiny to be not less than six months. We all want there to be sufficient time, but we also all want a process that is genuinely speedy and focused. We know that NPSs vary considerably, and in many cases Parliament may be scrutinising a minor amendment following a review. The sort of timetable the noble Baroness proposes is not strictly appropriate. It is too rigid and we need greater flexibility. Amendment No. 76 argues that the scrutiny process would be improved by requiring that parliamentary scrutiny take place once public consultation has concluded. That would add unnecessary length and resource costs. We have allowed a hangover period of four to six weeks for the Select Committee to take additional account of what has been raised in public consultation. That should be sufficient. We do not want to extend the period. We want to be able to make substantial revisions in the light of the views of the public and statutory consultees and we have allowed properly for that. I now turn to the amendments on the parliamentary committee and scrutiny by the committee. Amendment No. 79 in the names of the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, and the noble Lord, Lord Jenkin, would require the Secretary of State to respond to recommendations of a Joint Committee of both Houses. The noble Lord has already made the essential point. It raised particular issues. There is a serious question about whether it is appropriate at all to place such a requirement in the Bill. As we all know, the decision to set up a Joint Committee is a matter for both Houses. It presumes the agreement of both Houses, but one cannot always take that for granted. On Amendment No. 80 in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Cameron, he will know that, although Clause 9 does not specifically mention committee scrutiny in this House, nothing in the Bill prevents this House from deciding to set up a committee to look at and report in any form on one or all NPSs. Indeed, a proposal along these lines may have some merit. However, I have listened to the arguments. I do not need to be persuaded of the expertise of this House, not least standing at the Dispatch Box in the context of this Bill. I also know that we deploy our expertise and experience with care and proportion. There is merit in looking at ways in which this could be brought to bear most effectively in the consideration of draft NPSs. If the House will allow, therefore, I propose to take this amendment away to give it further thought. With that assurance, I hope that noble Lords will be able to withdraw their amendments.