Counter-Terrorism Bill

My Lords, I appreciated that last point because we lived in Berkeley for several years. I shall come to the 42 days’ detention in a minute but will start with some quick general points on the Bill. The Home Office seems to treat Bills like buses: as soon as one has gone past they look to the next one—and it is not all that long in coming, although sometimes they come in groups. As soon as one arrives, the Home Office climbs on board with whatever luggage it happens to be carrying. This particular Bill also has clauses about inquests; that bit of the luggage appears a bit lightweight, as far as I can detect, but I shall leave that to others who know more about it. Home Office Bills enshrine our most basic principles of law, order and freedom. They should be like Rolls-Royces: rare, thoughtfully engineered and long-lasting. This Bill is not those things. With all the policy changes, I cannot help feeling sorry for the parliamentary draftsmen involved, which is an unusual sentiment for me. However, like others, I think that the 42 days’ detention without charge offends British liberties as understood at least from Magna Carta onwards. This is not just a historical or constitutional point; it is fundamental to what we stand for and is also a most important practical point, as has come out in the debate. The struggle against terrorism is one for hearts and minds, as other noble Lords have said. The noble Lord, Lord Malloch-Brown, said that at Question Time this afternoon in the context of Afghanistan, but it is true in this context too. My noble friend Lord Sheikh, the noble Lord, Lord Ahmed, and a whole lot of other Peers have said the same thing this afternoon. That puts me against the proposal in principle from the start. But the actual proposal has become hopelessly complex in practice in the course of trying to get it through the Commons. If I were not trying to be non-partisan on an occasion like this, I might be tempted to say that it is a classic piece of Gordon Brown legislation. It seems that its complexity will defeat its object. It will attract all the negative feelings that noble Lords have drawn attention to this afternoon but it will not, in my view, be effective. It is now a very limited proposal indeed and we must judge its effectiveness in deciding whether to pass it. That is partly because of the threshold test, which others have already explained. Also, if anyone is to be detained for more than 28 days, there is a whole steeplechase of jumps to clear. They are adequately set out on page 21 of the Explanatory Notes, but are quite complicated, involving all the various authorities that we have heard about. One of the effects of that is to make the timing of it all rather tricky. Providing that Parliament ratifies it, an order will last for 30 days. If a suspect has been detained for 12 days or more when the order is laid, he or she can be detained for up to 42 days if it all goes through. But someone detained on the day that the order is laid can be detained only for 30 days—two over the current position. Of course, that does not apply to anyone who is detained more than two days after the order has been laid. The police would therefore not be wise to set the process in motion until after they have detained for some days all the key suspects that they may want to detain for more than 28 days. They will not do it immediately after some great terrorist operation or huge incident that causes a great deal of feeling, or even start doing it until they have rounded up all the key suspects and think that they are in a position to proceed. I am also concerned about the involvement of Parliament in all this. It is one of the hurdles that I described. The Select Committee chairmen will be told things that they cannot disclose even in confidence to their own committee members. If they agree with the Government, they will be thought to be puppets. If they disagree with the Government, they will not be able to explain why to Parliament, to their own committee colleagues or to anyone else. The other members of the committees concerned and Parliament generally will see only a censored version of the legal advice and not at all the police and DPP report which started the whole process running before the Secretary of State made the decision. Lastly, what about the trial after people have been detained and investigations have taken place? After the heavy machinery of the DPP, the Secretary of State, Parliament, judges and so forth have been publicly wheeled out—that collection of high authorities—in order to investigate the charge, will the accused really be able to get a fair trial? I suspect that if ever it comes to it, that matter will be appealed all the way up the courts—probably all the way to the Middlesex Guildhall. That is one of the difficulties. All these so-called safeguards have been progressively introduced as a series of sops to government supporters in another place and presumably also to the DUP, but they are almost unworkable. I am not sure that this will ever happen but, on the other hand, it would be rather embarrassing for the Government to reach the general election without ever using these powers that they have gone to so much trouble and strife to try to acquire. In the past, I have had some ministerial responsibility—and for that matter, shadow ministerial responsibility—for fighting terrorism in Northern Ireland and elsewhere. I have also had for 40 years a family connection with Palestine, which has given me an insight into terrorism, what happens and how it all works. I dislike this proposal in principle and because it will be counterproductive to the hearts and minds operation that is so important to it all. I am also most concerned that, in practice, it is deeply flawed.