Counter-Terrorism Bill

My Lords, on the night of 10 September 2001, my wife and I were on a plane from Washington to London. We arrived on 11 September and returned to my diocese in Guildford. Two or three days later, more than 500 members of the American community in Surrey gathered in Guildford Cathedral for a service, Surrey having the largest American community in the country. What struck me very forcefully about the opinions and the attitude of the American citizens living in shock after 11 September was not only their dignity but their strong sense that we in the free world should not react to these sorts of events by undermining our liberties and values . That memory has remained with me. Of course, the Government have a challenge, but it is easy for us not to recognise it. If there is a breach of our security, Governments pay a very heavy price for serious lapses in national security. We have to bear that seriously in mind. A number of noble Lords have talked about the values that underlie our liberal democracy. I would suggest that in our Christian tradition freedom and order, and law and liberty, feed each other. They are not just held in tension, but they serve each other and are the basis on which oppression, anarchy and the corporate abuse of power are resisted. The Church of England’s response to the Home Office paper of July 2007 from which this comes stated: "““The Christian tradition, in common with liberal democratic political theory and human rights law, upholds the safeguarding of public safety and civil liberties alike as major claims upon ""government … The protection of liberty within the rule of law is itself a major motive for resisting terrorism, and its erosion in response to threats to security constitutes a partial victory for terrorism””." We are dealing with legislation that has exceptional provision within it, which is beyond the normal bounds of the way in which we operate in the protection of civil liberties. If this House and Parliament are to give their consent to those extreme steps, they need sufficient evidence that that is needed and need to be sure that the powers therein are properly distributed. I share some of the anxieties about whether it is wise to give senior members of Government and of Parliament responsibilities that might properly belong within the judiciary. It is really important that we protect the judiciary from any sense that its activity is politically bounded. I agree with the comments made by the noble Lord, Lord Lester, particularly about Clause 79, and I will be very interested to hear the Minister’s response to some of the issues that he raised. What I am not clear about is the reason for the Bill. In the July 2007 paper it was clear that the motivation for the extension of pre-charge detention was the sense that the police do not have enough time. The changes introduced into this legislation in the parliamentary process seem to suggest now that the reason for the Bill is the grave, exceptional threat of terrorism. These are not the same reasons. If the reason is a lack of police time, then we need the evidence. If it is a grave and serious terrorist threat, then, as others have suggested, why is the Civil Contingencies Act 2004 not sufficient for the task? Like many noble Lords, I appreciate the efforts the Government have made to respond to public concerns, but I share the concerns about the Byzantine processes that are now in place. Is the Bill, as it stands, workable? It is not just in the interest of national security but also in the interest of those under suspicion that the process is simple, understandable, immediate and straightforward. In my diocese, two young men have already returned to their community innocent after having been suspected of involvement in terrorist activity. These two young people were held for 28 days after an incident in 2006 and released on the 28th day without charge. What is it going to be like after seven weeks of detention, if that is what happens, for young people to return to their communities? What is going to be the impact of that? Those of us who work in these communities face a severe challenge now with regard to the attitudes of young people in minority groups and their social place and sense of cohesion. Have we not got into a mode of thinking that the way to deal with such threats is to produce criminal justice legislation that turns the screws a bit harder? That argument is counterproductive and will radicalise communities yet further.