Counter-Terrorism Bill

My Lords, I was delighted and privileged to hear the maiden speech of the noble Baroness, Lady Manningham-Buller, and share her point of view that, if possible, security matters should be above party politics. I had the honour of introducing to this House the first Bill that dealt with the security services. That was done on the basis of strong cross-party support. It has been somewhat amended since then but on the whole has worked successfully. I will talk briefly on Clause 40 of the Bill, which creates a universal jurisdiction for serious terrorist offences in the United Kingdom. It is desirable to point out the need for some mechanism to determine how this matter is to be exercised, remembering that the Scottish courts have a particular position under Article 19 of the Treaty of Union. The primary matter to deal with is detention without charge. I of course accept all that has been said about the complexity of the terrorist threat in modern times. Like the noble and learned Lord, Lord Falconer of Thoroton, I do not see a direct connection between that complexity to do with gathering evidence and holding a person without charge in the mean time. These are separate matters requiring separate consideration. This Bill requires that the Home Secretary should have discretion to bring in a reserve power in this connection following a report by the Director of Public Prosecutions and the chief officer of a police force in England and Wales, the Crown Agent and the chief constable of a police force in Scotland, or the Director of Public Prosecutions for Northern Ireland and the Chief Constable of Northern Ireland. It seems to suggest that if one of these three groups should make such a report, this power is triggered for the United Kingdom as a whole. The requirements of that report are clear. It is necessary that, "““each of the persons making the report is satisfied that there are reasonable grounds for believing that the detention of one or more persons beyond 28 days will be necessary for one or more of the [stated] purposes””." They must give grounds for that belief and must also be satisfied that any investigation is being pursued diligently and expeditiously. On the basis of that report, the Bill gives the Secretary of State power to make an order bringing in that reserve power. It is interesting for me to notice that this involves something more than what was in the report, because the Secretary of State must satisfy Parliament that the need for the reserve power is urgent. There does not seem to be anything in the report from the prosecuting authorities that requires that to be stated. Whether the independent lawyer is able to furnish that out of his own head must be a matter of question, unless one has more faith in the independent lawyer than I have. However, I believe that we can have faith in the senior judge with supreme confidence. On the other hand, I do not believe that it is right to impose on the senior judge an impossible task. The procedure seems to be a private procedure that is alien to the general judicial process, and there does not seem to be any opportunity for intervention by the detained person. I do not think that the Bill states what the senior judge is supposed to be satisfied about before he grants the application. I would have thought that that at least would be required. When I became Lord Advocate in 1979, the outgoing Labour Government had a criminal justice Bill for Scotland before Parliament. When we took office, we decided that it would be good to promote a similar Bill, with some changes of course, as always happens on these occasions. It was interesting that what we were trying to do was give a statutory framework for detention before charge. The time limits in question were something like four hours or eight hours. That was a time of quite severe terrorist threat. Noble Lords might remember that Mr Airey Neave was blown up in New Palace Yard at that time. I of course accept that the complications of terrorist activity are much greater now than they were then. However, it seems to me that when we are going from, on the one hand, four to eight hours in 1979, to 42 days at this time, we have seen a very considerable erosion of the civil liberties on which our society is founded. If we wish to preserve our society, methods that destroy that framework of civil liberties seem to me to be quite wrong.