Sexual Offences (Northern Ireland) Order 2008

My Lords, I can separate the figures out. The figures I gave for Northern Ireland of 222 and 142 were absolute figures. They did not represent percentages of the population. I can provide more details. I also have figures for stillbirths resulting from those pregnancies. However, the point I am making concerns the dislocation between teenage pregnancy and the age of consent. Countries where the age of consent is lower than ours have fewer teenage pregnancies than we do. In response to what I have heard this evening, I want to send out two messages. One is to those engaging in sexual activity with people aged 14 or 15. A whole lot of new powers and stronger sentences are available to the courts for dealing with them. If they abuse the position of young people below the age of consent, they can expect a heavier sentence than ever before. The second message relates to the comments about the possibility that sexual predators in the Republic of Ireland and elsewhere will see the order as some kind of green light to go to Northern Ireland to abuse children. That is absolutely not the case. The message of the legislation could not be clearer. Abusers and sexual predators who go to Northern Ireland will be hit with sentences that have not been available there before. We will not tolerate sexual exploitation and abuse, but that has nothing to do with the age of consent; it has to do with how we deal with people who behave in that wholly unacceptable way. I shall try to respond to individual questions as it is important to get my reply on the record. As regards who supports what, it is worth reading out the list. The responses to the consultation on the draft legislation regarding the age of consent have been published so there is no difficulty in that regard. Against the change were the Christian Institute, the Free Presbyterian Church, the DUP, the UUP and the SDLP. In favour of the change were the NSPCC, Barnardo’s, the Police Service of Northern Ireland, the Family Planning Association, Brook, the Children’s Law Centre, the national Commissioner for Children and Young People, the health and social care trusts, the Eastern Health and Social Services Board, the Southern Health and Social Services Board, Children in Northern Ireland, Sinn Fein and the Alliance Party. That is the scale of the result of the consultation. I was asked by one noble Lord to leave out the changes to the age of consent. It is not quite like that. I do not think that any article in the order states that. The age of consent permeates the whole order. All offences against children are based on particular ages, as I have set out. There is no statutory age of consent as such. It is determined by the offences of sexual activity with a child under the age of 16. There is no age of consent article that one can simply strike out. I fully accept the point made by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd of Berwick, that the law in Scotland is different, but the age of consent is 16. The noble Baroness, Lady Blood, gave me the opportunity to deal with a couple of points that she made in her speech. I will put my response on the record now. On the reporting requirement under Section 5 of the Criminal Law Act (Northern Ireland) 1967, we have given considerable thought to the issue whereby it is incumbent on someone who knows that a serious offence has been carried out to report it to the police. The concern is that it could place health professionals, counselling staff and parents in very difficult situations, whereby they may be expected to report young people who they know are engaging in consensual sexual activity. The issue has been discussed at length with the Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety in Northern Ireland. Although there is a provision in the order to take away the reporting requirement, the Executive Minister for Health has asked that we delay implementation until new safeguarding legislation for child protection is in place. As I said earlier, that is expected next year. In the mean time, I can say that it may not be appropriate in many instances to report and criminalise normal consenting sexual activity between competent young people. Northern Ireland Office officials will continue to work closely with Northern Ireland health department officials and the Public Prosecution Service on the production of guidance to remove any anxiety of the noble Baroness and others. This guidance will of course be published. On the noble Baroness’s point about the need for mandatory guidance under the order, there will be further consultation on guidance with key stakeholders and others. The guidance will be issued prior to the enactment of the legislation. Although that may not be mandatory, it will be done seriously and inclusively because of the need to have the advice and minds of many stakeholders and organisations to help to frame the guidance so that it is both practical and useful. Northern Ireland Office officials will of course contribute to the development by the Department of Heath, Social Services and Public Safety of any guidance on child protection issues. The noble Baroness also asked about guidance on the handling of cases of children who sexually harm. This is a very important issue, but our view is that legislative provision for a body of law on sexual offences is not the place for provisions that deal with how the criminal justice system interacts with children who display sexually harmful behaviour. I assure her that procedures are already in place which the agencies follow when handling such cases. There will also be opportunities to consider this issue in future inter-agency discussions on guidance. The noble Lord, Lord Tebbit, made a point about the order in Northern Ireland. As I have said, the nature of the voting is such that it would not have passed through the Assembly anyway. I understand that the committee voted 5:3, so the vote was not unanimous, but I do not argue with the fact. I mentioned in my speech that the committee had made that point. I quoted its chairman. I gave an analysis of those in the consultation who came out in public in favour. Contrary to what some noble Lords have said, this is not a moral issue. We are dealing with criminal law. This is not about influencing teenage sexual activity. It is as simple as that. I answered the point about cross-community voting. My answer may not be satisfactory, but it is the one that I gave to my noble friend Lord Clarke. I am very grateful to him for giving me notice of his question. The cross-community voting system would not mean that there is majority support for this in the Assembly. I hope that I have dealt with teenage pregnancies.