Prevention and Suppression of Terrorism

The hon. Gentleman is right. There is a consensus, given the evidence currently available. That may change. Let me give some evidence to support the hon. Gentleman's remarks and those of the Minister, which also reflect my view, about the consensus on 28 days, which has been agreed by the House and the other place. In evidence to the Select Committee on Home Affairs, the Director of Public Prosecutions said:"““Well, we welcomed the increase to 28 days and we felt that a period of 14 days was not sufficient. It seems to us that 28 days has been effective and has provided us with powers, if you like, supervised by the courts, which have been useful to us as prosecutors in making appropriate charging decisions within that period. We are, on the basis of what has occurred since then, satisfied with 28 days. We have not had any cases which would require a longer period than that””" The former shadow Home Secretary recently received a parliamentary answer in which the Home Secretary stated that"““from 20 January 2004 to date, 11 individuals have been held for over 14 days pre-charge detention, six individuals were held for the maximum 27-28 days, of which three individuals were charged, and three individuals were released without charge.””—[Official Report, 2 June 2008; Vol. 476, c. 745W.]" The figures showed that of the four suspects held without charge for up to 20 days, all were charged. Twenty-eight days is longer than we would like to see in our common law—when I say ““we””, I mean most of those who want to scrutinise these propositions, which have implications for civil liberties. Twenty-eight days is a long time; indeed, it is certainly longer than in other parts of the western, industrialised, democratic world. None the less, we believe that the extension from 14 days to 28 days was right, on the evidence available since it came into effect, including the evidence as of today. The Minister and hon. Members will be relieved to hear that I will not recite anything about the extension to 42 days that the House voted on recently, although not because I shy away from the arguments that my friend and colleague, the former Member for Member for Haltemprice and Howden put forward; indeed, there were powerful and passionate arguments on both sides. Rather, before closing my remarks, I would like to ask a couple of questions about two issues mentioned in the debate held this time last year, when my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Beaconsfield, now the shadow Home Secretary, stood in my position and debated the issue with the Minister. The first question relates to concerns raised about the operation of what was then the recently introduced code H of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984, dealing with terrorist cases. It seems moderately clear that the rules designed to cover the detention of a person for what is usually 24 or 48 hours are not suitable when someone is in custody for a much longer period. Can the Minister share his thinking, or any evidence, on how frequently individuals have been transferred to prison from police cells during the period of detention, and on how the system has operated in bringing them back to police stations for further interviews? Other concerns were raised about how code H could in theory allow for a person to be questioned for hour after hour, over a period that could extend to 28 days. I am sure that that has not happened in practice. However, can the Minister give us his analysis of how the code is operating? There are, I am sure, breaks for rest. Could he shed any light on that, provided that doing so would not breach any operational or national security considerations? The reason why that is important is not a wishy-washy, bleeding-heart liberal reason, as some outside this place might characterise my questions—I am sure that the Minister would not characterise them like that—but because of fears that any statement made in a period running up to 28 days could be challenged by defence counsel at any future trial, on the basis of a suggestion that coercion had been involved in the defendant's giving of evidence, because of excessive and prolonged questioning, which had perhaps taken place without the benefit of any requisite breaks. That concern is thrown up by what, last year, was the relatively new code H under the 1984 Act. My second and final question also relates to something that was raised in last year's debate, and is about how longer periods of detention without charge might allow for press speculation that made the prospect of a fair trial difficult or impossible. The Minister said that he hoped that the Crown Prosecution Service would put out a paper on that issue. Can he give us an update on that, and on what his thinking is on the subject? Both my questions concern the operation of the regime to which the order relates. To conclude, I hope that we can get away from the idea that those who propose the longest period of detention without charge are the toughest on terrorists. Her Majesty's Opposition believe that the House must be robust in doing our best to protect the security of the people in our country. However, that must always be balanced—this is always a difficult judgment—against our British values, parts of which rely on an adherence to civil liberties, as one of our principal weapons in defeating those who wish to harm us. It is in that spirit of friendly inquiry to the Minister that I close my remarks.