Counter-Terrorism Bill (Programme) (No. 2)

My right hon. Friend is entirely right, and I should like to make two points in response to what he has said. I am sure he is correct to say that we should try to treat counter-terrorism legislation the same as legislation that covers other serious crime and that, to the extent that we properly can, we should adopt an exceptional process for it. On the other hand, the hon. Member for Cambridge (David Howarth) is right to say that we should be willing to bring the other issues of serious crime into line with counter-terrorism legislation, if the merits of the argument point in that direction. However, my feeling is that that is best left to the judge, and it is for that reason that I shall not follow the Liberal Democrats' advocacy on the matter. I want to make two other points, and the first has to do with forfeiture. The House will know that there are very extensive powers of forfeiture in both the 2000 Act and in clauses 33, 34 and 37 of this Bill. What standard of proof should the judge require before a forfeiture order is made? A forfeiture order is a draconian measure. It is appropriate in many cases, but we must make sure that a court is satisfied beyond a reasonable doubt that the relevant criteria set out in legislation are satisfied before such an order is made. In a bid to pre-empt an observation that the Minister may make, I should say that I believe such a requirement should in the Bill. It may be that the courts will have said in previous decisions that surety is a requirement, but we must say as much in legislation. The Minister will know that there was a case earlier this year in which the issue of aggravating circumstances in murder cases went to the Court of Appeal. That was the level at which it was decided that the judge involved had to be satisfied beyond a reasonable doubt: that decision was needed because the existing legislation did not suffice in that respect.