European Union (Amendment) Bill

My Lords, I really enjoy listening to the most reverend Primate. He takes us on journeys that are fascinating to behold, but the one description that he gave of queues of the public at the Printed Paper Office waiting to read Hansard is not a picture that I can believe. He assists me enormously in my case. I disagree with him and agree with my noble friend Lord Howell in his response to the speech of the noble Baroness, Lady Symons, who, together with the noble Lord, Lord Watson, and I, are fellow governors of the English-Speaking Union, where we debate these issues all the time. I do not agree with his assessment, but I hope that he agrees that if we were to try to encapsulate the arguments in clear and simple terms, we would begin to win again. The public must be persuaded. If individual political parties break their bargain with the British people—the majority think that that bargain has been broken—you cannot just leave it and move on, although I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Watson, that of course we have to move on. I do not know exactly what will happen; there are a lot of hypothetical questions in this debate; but my argument has always been that we have to win the public's hearts and minds on the issue of Europe. I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Dykes; he and I have fought hard in the past to try to get across to people the positive side of our membership of the European Union. We have neglected all that too much; I especially point my finger at the Government. If we are to make progress, we need a Government who strongly believe that Britain's place is at the heart of Europe and who get out there to communicate to people and knock the scare stories on the head.