Housing and Regeneration Bill

I am grateful to Members of the Committee who have spoken in this debate, and I have drawn on their rich experience. It has been very helpful. I shall go through each amendment carefully and explain some of our thinking on it. I observe at the outset, although I have not sat on the Monopolies Commission or the Housing Corporation, I had a fairly large responsibility in running a local authority. I know that we had annual terms, which was very useful if you were the leader of the council, for fairly obvious reasons. Committee size was an issue, which cuts to the point raised by my noble friend Lady Dean. Some of the sizes of the committees were absurdly large. The notion that the quality of debate improved the more people you had was fatuous. Over the years, I brought the numbers down to a manageable size that provided for breadth of debate. That is where I am coming from on this. Amendment No. 101 was moved by the noble Viscount, Lord Eccles. We do not think it is necessary, and we think that it would run against the spirit of the Cave review. Cave recommended that the regulator’s board should consist, "““of a small number of executive and non-executive board members, with a non-executive chair and majority, to which regulation should be entrusted””." We have begun the process of recruiting a board for the regulator and the HCA. I was flicking through the Sunday Times last week, and there were the big adverts. I understand that adverts were placed in other national newspapers. Do not press me, but I think the Sunday Mirror might have been one of them, but I am not a Sunday Mirror reader. The exact composition of the board will be for the new chairs, in conjunction with Ministers, to decide. However, we currently envisage that the board will comprise the chair, the chief executive and seven members. Among the seven members, we would like to see at least two with direct experience of being a tenant—I would have thought there is a powerful argument for that. However, the most important thing is that the board is comprised in a way that enables the regulator to meet its 10 objectives. However, the stipulation that the board should have three to 10 members provides flexibility for the chair, while being faithful to the Cave aim of a having a small and focused board. Let me be clear that three members is an absolute minimum—the noble Viscount got it right when he said that if one of them caught a cold there would be a bit of a problem, and I entirely understand what he was saying. We discussed this with the Homes and Communities Agency, and three is just the bottom of the possible range. We would certainly expect the membership to be nearer to the maximum of 10 in order to allow the necessary range of skills and expertise to be reflected at member level. Noble Lords will have noted the difference in the size of membership between the regulator and the new agency and, indeed, the current Housing Corporation board. These minimum and maximum numbers are smaller than the current arrangements and the future HCA arrangements. That is deliberately so in order to reflect the narrower and more focused functions of the regulator compared with the scope of the new agency or the Housing Corporation’s current role which, as noble Lords will appreciate, includes investment at present. Amendment No. 101A, was tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, who unfairly described her amendments as a ragbag. I think that they were an interesting collection, and they have helped us to focus some of our thinking on these issues. This amendment amends Clause 83(1)(b), which enlarges the membership of the regulator—its board, if you like. The Bill currently permits the membership to consist of a chair, a chief executive and between three and 10 other members. All are appointed by the Secretary of State, though the Secretary of State must consult the chair on all appointments, except that of the chair. The effect of this amendment would be to raise the membership to between five and 15. The noble Baroness, Lady Dean, was right in her argument. I am unsure of the noble Baroness’s reason for tabling this amendment. I suspect it was that, like the noble Viscount, Lord Eccles, the noble Baroness was concerned that there would not be sufficient breadth or that the board would be unrepresentative. In his recommendations, Professor Cave argued that the regulator should consist of, "““a small number of executive and non-executive board members””." Our view is that the regulator will be a relatively small body, funded by providers’ fees. That, in essence, is part of the thinking behind having a difference in the sizes of the memberships of the regulatory board and the new agency. I do not think that there is a case for having a board as large as that of the Housing Corporation, which also covers investment and regulatory functions. It has 11 members, not including the chair and chief executive. We have to have a rather more focused view on the size of that board. The important thing is that the board is comprised to enable the regulator to meet its objectives and perform its functions. That means getting the right mix of skills to do the job properly, so that we can get it up and running in good time. Three to 10 members, plus chair and chief executive, is sufficient. Amendment No. 101B, tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, would remove a subsection stating that former membership of the Housing Corporation is not a bar to appointment of the new regulator. We are grateful to the noble Baroness for informing officials of the intention behind the amendment and appreciate her usual courtesy. I hope that I can provide her with the clarification she seeks. Clause 83(4) is merely for the avoidance of doubt. It merely makes clear that former membership of the Housing Corporation is not a bar to being appointed as a member of the regulator. We want to avoid any uncertainty over this, which is why the subsection has been included.