European Union (Amendment) Bill

My Lords, the noble Lord is correct. As he would expect, I feel quite strongly about the role of your Lordships’ House and the importance of ensuring that your Lordships have the opportunity to contribute where that is appropriate, as I believe it is here. As I said, this is a new power. It is a new power because this is a new provision; it is the first time that we have had it. Noble Lords rightly want to challenge and test how it will work bearing in mind the way in which the conventions in your Lordships' House have traditionally operated. By recognising that this is a new power, I am saying that this is a new power where the conventions do not apply. As the noble Lord, Lord Howell, rightly said, this applies to both Houses of Parliament. As I said, this has to involve both Houses of Parliament and not—as the noble Lord, Lord Roper, said—just one. I want to be absolutely clear that if either House of Parliament says no to a Motion, then it will fall. Each House therefore has an effective veto over the use any passerelle set out in Clause 6. Let me set out the thinking on how we believe it will work. In practice, a Minister would ask Parliament to agree a Motion to use one of the listed passerelles. We envisage that this would probably be a straightforward yes or no question on whether to use a specific passerelle; for example, whether to move a specific policy area from unanimity to QMV or co-decision. After debate in both Houses, there will, if necessary, be a vote. Of course, it is for your Lordships to decide whether to vote, but we assume that there will be one. In another place, just for completeness, the Motion will be debated under Standing Order 21 which provides for a debate of up to 90 minutes. In your Lordships' House, it is for your Lordships to decide how much time you wish to spend on such a debate. We would expect that debate to be on the Floor of the House. The Government would discuss timing through the usual channels, as noble Lords would expect. At the conclusion of the debate, there will be a vote if a vote is needed. That is in the hands of your Lordships. We would ensure the capacity for there to be such a vote. Again, for clarity, the usual conventions on statutory instruments will not apply. There is no constraint on your Lordships' House in deciding to give or withhold its approval. I think that that is the most fundamental point raised by the noble Lord, Lord McNally, regarding clarity and why this is different. He is right to say that an evolutionary process has happened here, and I am able to set it out very clearly. I believe that it is a significant difference. The Bill makes it clear that the Motion has to be agreed without amendment so that we do not have any confusion about what happened, about whether or not it has been unequivocally agreed. We move on to the subject of Amendment No. 24: the flexibility in the Bill. We have tried in the Bill to provide a little flexibility if Parliament agrees. As noble Lords are well aware, there may occasionally be negotiation on the final wording, perhaps on the date from which it is meant to take effect or in relation to the simplified procedure and the precise language of a provision. We have made it clear in the Bill that it is a matter for Parliament to grant flexibility and to decide whether it wishes to allow Ministers flexibility to take advantage of the negotiating process in order to promote the UK's interests. There is no question but that if Parliament wishes to remove any flexibility, it can do so. It may wish to grant flexibility elsewhere. If the Government seek approval of a Motion with some negotiating flexibility then either House can amend that part of the Motion. Parliament can say yes to the passerelle but no to the flexibility. In answer to the point raised by the noble Lords, Lord Blackwell and Lord Howell, we think that this is a simple, efficient and effective way of requiring and giving Parliament the opportunity to control the passerelles, rather than an Act of Parliament with all that that would entail. If we had the position where we had an Act of Parliament, we might have to keep coming back to Parliament if there were a change, however minor, rather than this procedure which gives effective control to Parliament through a vote of the kind that I have outlined. I understand why a position that says that the conventions of the House would apply would make noble Lords nervous if they felt they were being hamstrung into having to vote. As I have made clear, the Government do not take that view. Quite the opposite; it is for your Lordships to decide. I have given as clear an explanation as I can of how this would work in practice. We will obviously continue our discussions with the House authorities through the usual channels but that is the Government’s position. On that basis, I hope the noble Lord is able to withdraw his amendment.