European Union (Amendment) Bill

My Lords, I support my noble friend Lord Pearson on this amendment. I do not understand why the noble Lord, Lord Dykes, is so against it. If our membership is so self-evidently beneficial, surely he should welcome a cost-benefit analysis that would demonstrate that conclusively and once and for all to the British public, so lancing the boil. There would be nothing to worry about. I do not know why our Europhile colleagues are so nervous or so against having a cost-benefit analysis. This would help them if they are sure of their facts. If our contributions, which the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart, has analysed so carefully, are so minor, our Europhile colleagues should welcome a cost-benefit analysis. I cannot see the problem at all. Let me pick up on one or two things. The noble Lord, Lord Dykes, quoted from eurofacts. I claim some credit for his assiduous reading of eurofacts because I think that I sent it to him as a Christmas present last year. I have yet to receive a thank-you letter; I am a little disappointed by that. Of course it is essential reading. If Europhile noble Lords have time, when they are not busy excoriating the Murdochite press, they will find that eurofacts is correct—it is Eurofactual. The noble Lord, Lord Wallace, will recognise that. He took great pleasure in Committee in rubbishing an allegedly fictitious story that the European Commission was going to regulate fortune-tellers and spiritualists. He had terrific fun with that. Actually, as noble Lords will know, because we have circulated the report, the story was true. The noble Lord should be a little more careful about what he says when he affects to rubbish the stories in eurofacts. I am quite sure that at some point the Commission or European Parliament will come forward with a proposal to make it more difficult for parties such as UKIP or any other Eurosceptic party to have a say. Indeed, that is already happening. They are going to be cut out from funding unless they have a certain number of representatives. So I advise noble Lords to be a little bit careful and to concentrate on the Murdoch press rather than on eurofacts. My noble friend Lord Pearson has made the arguments conclusively and the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart, has backed them up. I prefer to look at our gross contribution to the EU, which I think is now £12 billion or £14 billion. It moves all the time and it is increasing. We should look at the gross figure. If one pays tax, one does not say, ““I am actually paying 20 per cent, but I only pay 8 per cent because I have roads and policing””; one says, ““I am paying 20 per cent tax””. Apart from our rebate, the returns that we get, as mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Dykes, have Euro Commission labels telling us on what we should spend the money. Our money goes to Europe and comes back with a label on it telling us how to spend it. I hope that we look at our gross contribution in the future. The noble Baroness may tell us that it is about £14 billion and likely to increase. Finally, we are often told by our Europhile friends that this is a club and that if you become a member of a club you have to pay your dues for your membership. Of course, that is absolutely right. However, if you are a member of a club, you look at your membership dues annually—at least I certainly do—and you review them; you see what the advantages are of your membership of the club; you look at who your fellow members are; you look at what advantage you get from membership and what services you get; and you look at whether your subscription gives you value for money. That is all that my noble friend Lord Pearson, the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart, and I want; we want to see whether our subscription to the Euro club is worth it. The people of this country also want to know whether it is worth it. At one point, the noble Lord, Lord Maclennan, said that there is a groundswell towards Europe and the noble Lord, Lord Dykes, said that there is a swing towards Europe. I do not know what world they inhabit, as any poll will show that people are increasingly sceptical about our membership of the European Union. I let that pass, as it is a matter for debate and polls can swing one way or the other. Certainly no poll that I have seen over the past five to 10 years has said that we want more Europe, which is what this treaty gives us. I believe that my noble friend’s amendment is valuable and will be useful to the general debate outside the Westminster bubble. I strongly support the amendment.