Human Fertilisation and Embryology Bill [Lords]

The hon. Gentleman can be absolutely reassured that there is no prospect of any hybrid embryo being implanted or injected into anyone or anything. That is clear in the law. I also doubt very much whether any stem cells derived from such a hybrid embryo would be the ones going into treatments. It is much more likely that hybrids will be used to perfect the technique, so that we do not use up precious human eggs. Only fully human embryos will be the source of stem cells and stem-cell lines that could be used for treatment. That work is some way off, although we shall deal with the issue in the next group of amendments. I want to finish on whether there is any prospect of true hybrids being used. It is most unfortunate that leading scientists' views have been traduced in this debate—we had that on Second Reading and we have had it again today. The hon. Member for Boston and Skegness cited Robin Lovell-Badge of the National Institute for Medical Research as saying in his evidence to the Joint Committee:"““I cannot think of a good experiment to do now””." However, Dr. Lovell-Badge went on to say that"““but I am sure someone will think of a good experiment.””" What he meant was that, because he did not work in that area, he personally could not think of a good experiment to do at the time he was being asked. It was eminently reasonable for him then to come back with answers. That is what we expect Select Committee witnesses to do. That does not mean that he has changed his mind, and it is unfortunate that matters should be characterised in that way. On Second Reading, the hon. Member for Morecambe and Lunesdale (Geraldine Smith), who is not present, said that scientists"““said that they are puzzled as to why such experiments should take place.””—[Official Report, 12 May 2008; Vol. 475, c. 1099.]" In his letter to the hon. Member for Boston and Skegness, Robin Lovell-Badge said:"““I have never once said that I am 'puzzled as to why such experiments should take place'.””" He went on to make three points that were not fully dealt with by the hon. Member for Boston and Skegness and with which I shall deal briefly. First, the hamster test is available under the 1990 Act. I know that amendment No. 10 does not seek to remove it, although I question why. If one is against true hybrids, one should be against true hybrids. Dr. Lovell-Badge makes the point, in his letter, that mouse eggs are ““better characterised”” and better for that purpose. They are used abroad for the test, but they cannot be used in the UK because the 1990 Act is restricted to hamster cells. That is silly and does not make sense. The second point was that if there were progress in research into in vitro derived gametes—they have been called artificial gametes—that would need to be tested. It is true that the Government are not yet looking favourably at the prospect of allowing stem cell derived gametes to be used in the treatment of the thousands of people who have survived cancer and cannot create their own gametes, but that does not mean that they have any intention of banning research into those things. That is permitted, and part of that research is to test whether research is working. It is unfortunate that that has not been recognised. Finally, Dr. Lovell-Badge made it clear that the cloning technique might require a comparison between cybrids and full eggs—eggs that have not been enucleated—to see whether there is anything nuclear in the egg that helps blastocyst formation. He did not say in his letter that the third issue was simply cybrids; he said that it was comparison with cybrids.