Employment Bill [HL]

My Lords, this amendment seeks to give employment agencies a statutory duty to protect the welfare of temporary staff where 30 or more temporary workers under the age of 18 are engaged on the same assignment. The Government support the intention behind the amendment; the noble Baroness, Lady Wilcox, correctly referred to the sentiment coming from us as well as from the noble Lord, Lord James of Blackheath. It is essential to have appropriate protection for vulnerable agency workers, particularly where young workers are engaged on assignments away from home. However, it is not clear that this amendment would provide significant additional protection in practice. Existing employment agency legislation already covers most of the amendment’s proposals and seeks to provide a proper balance between the interests of agency workers, the companies that hire them and the agencies themselves. Subsection (1) of the proposed new Section 6A states: "““Any person carrying on an employment agency or an employment business that places over 30 temporary staff under the age of 18 in the fulfilment of a single contract shall have a duty to protect the welfare of those staff””." However, paragraph 20(1)(b) of the Conduct of Employment Agencies and Employment Businesses Regulations 2003, otherwise known as the conduct regulations, already requires the employment agency to make all reasonable practical enquiries prior to the placement, "““to ensure that it would not be detrimental to the interests of the work-seeker””" to work in the position offered by the hirer. Indeed, that is the case for all placements—not just those covered by the noble Lord’s amendment. In addition, under paragraphs 24(7) and 24(8) of the conduct regulations, parental consent is required for individuals under the age of 18 where an assignment requires them to live away from home. I understand that the amendment seeks to address, among other things, situations where assignments take young workers away from home for sporting or other events that involve overnight stays. Subsection (2) of the proposed new section requires that an agency or employment business must arrange for a ““responsible person”” to be present at the workplace for the duration of the assignment. In practice, any agency or employment business that supplies as many as 30 young people on an assignment would also ensure that appropriate arrangements were in place for their supervision and control. The supervision might be carried out by the agency or employment business, or by the business hiring the people. Those supervising would be responsible for ensuring that the protections for workers under health and safety legislation were in place. There are specific provisions in paragraph 19 of the Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations 1999 to cover the protection of young people. In broad terms, employers have a duty to protect young people at work, "““from any risks to their health or safety which are a consequence of their lack of experience, or absence of awareness of existing or potential risks or the fact that young persons have not yet … matured””." That definition is in existing legislation. It does not prevent an employer employing a young person where necessary for his or her training, where the young person will be supervised by a competent person and where any risk will be reduced to the lowest reasonably practicable level. We also need to consider enforcement. It would be relatively easy for unscrupulous agencies to get around the requirement in this amendment by ensuring that, where large groups of young workers were supplied, no more than 29 were under 18, by topping up the group with 18 year-olds, or by including in it at least one worker over the age of 18 to act as the ““responsible person””. Those measures would seem to achieve the noble Lord’s intentions but they could, in practice, be swiftly ignored. I am grateful to the noble Lord for drawing attention to the reference suggested by the noble Baroness, Lady Gardner, of that Australian phrase, ““a go-to person””. The noble Lord referred to it having to be a succinct phrase, which is why the Australians won the Ashes. I remind the noble Lord that they are not as good at rugby. However, a go-to person would be impractical; if they were there and doing the job as best they could and an unfortunate situation arose, would they get sued? Who would get sued and who would get prosecuted? How would the facts arise, when most witnesses would have a vested interest in not co-operating? Who, ultimately, would employ the go-to person and would that mean such a person would actually turn up to do the job? Although this is an excellent idea, I am afraid that it would fail completely in practice and not achieve the successful prosecutions that the noble Lord properly requires. The Government share the noble Lord’s concern that young people under the age of 18 may, when working away from home, come under all kinds of pressures. He recited those in graphic detail: I am grateful to him for that alarmism. There are pressures of a sexual nature; there are those who use illegal drugs or consume excessive quantities of alcohol. However, such matters go beyond the scope of employment legislation, which is what we are here to discuss. In fact, I believe that what the noble Lord, Lord James, suggested goes beyond the scope of the very amendment that he has put before us. No matter how reprehensible or disgusting we find all the situations to which he quite properly referred, and no matter how much we may read of them in the newspapers and thank heavens that it is not our child who is involved, this Bill is not the place to deal with them. Indeed, it is difficult to see what place there would be in the framework to deal seamlessly with this issue. The line between moral conduct and the implication of the law has always been difficult to draw; this is no different. I understand his frustration regarding the Manchester United Christmas party; as he is mentioning them by name today, I am sure that we wish both Manchester United and Chelsea—and I say this with complete neutrality, because Aston Villa is the best football club in the world—the very best of luck on Wednesday. I would like the facts of the case to come out before we pass judgment. As I understand it—and I, too, have only read newspaper reports—many of the young women who attended the party were not the employees of anyone involved with the party. They were the employees of shops and other businesses in Manchester who were invited to the party; they were told that there would be champagne and that there would be a room available, and they turned up. I am not for one moment suggesting that what happened after that is in any way acceptable—indeed, it is completely disgusting—but, nevertheless, it would be difficult to frame employment legislation, which is what we are here to do, to cover a situation where totally uninterested third parties turn up at a party. The consequence of their actions is dreadful to contemplate—nevertheless, it is not the basis of this proposed legislation. The Government aim to ensure that serious sexual offences are treated as a priority in all local areas and that all local agencies use all the tools available to focus on tackling sexual exploitation, especially sexual exploitation of the young. Very tough penalties are currently in force. If these should be more rigorously implemented, that would be the subject for another debate. I thank the noble Lord, Lord James of Blackheath, for raising this important issue but, in the light of my response, I hope he feels that he can withdraw his amendment. This is not the place to deal with his justifiable observation.