Local Authorities (Alcohol Disorder Zones) Regulations 2008

My Lords, that is absolutely right. However, as I am sure the noble Baroness understands better than most, our case is that it may not necessarily be one isolated premises that is the problem. It may be the accumulated effect of a supermarket off-sale, an off-sales premises itself, a club, a pub and perhaps even a restaurant—though I think that restaurants are the lower-order end of the problem—in a given area. I have in mind St James’s Street in Brighton, which has all of those things. It occasionally has a problem with disorder which is related to the consumption of alcohol in that part of the city. You would be hard pressed to say which pub or club is the cause of the problem. The licensing authority has the flexibility to isolate a particular premises and to deal with it in a particular way. As the noble Baroness will readily admit, these powers can work well. I want to move to a few of the other points that the noble Baroness made. She made reference to shatter-proof glass and safety glass. It is sensible for pubs to have access to those and it may well be that a pub or club that has a particular problem makes use of them. It makes great sense. The noble Baroness’s discussions with a Councillor Mochnacz alerted her to that particular issue. One would want to encourage best practice in licensed premises. I thought that the rateable value point was relevant but only in so far as we understand it as one part of the formula. We also have to understand that the local authority has some flexibility through the discounting scheme. That should enable the charges to be more finely tuned. We accept that the charging mechanism may at first instance be seen as complex but that reflects the way in which different areas work, the way they have different types of licensed premises and the way those premises might contribute in different ways to a larger problem. A charging mechanism that simply took the cost of enforcing and administering an ADZ and divided that amount by the number of licensed premises could disproportionately affect some premises, particularly restaurants, but not others, such as nightclubs. If the licensed premises with an ADZ were all the same type—pubs, for example—then a local authority might consider it sensible simply to divide the costs more evenly, in which case it would be very straightforward indeed. The key point is that, without the flexibility that we have included in the regulations, local authorities would not be able to make sensible decisions about what amounts to charge particular premises. We have a clear idea of how the ADZ benefits operate as a method of combating alcohol-fuelled disorder and we think that it is right to say that local authorities and the police have those powers to deal with alcohol-related problems. The Licensing Act 2003 is a key tool in the local authority’s arsenal. If it is used well, it can reduce many of the problems associated with problem premises. However, the Act is about targeting specific premises. It does not allow local authorities to take action against premises when the problems occur in the public space between a number of licensed premises. It is that gap that the legislation aims to fill. There are avenues of complaint for licence holders who are concerned about the application of the charges. All local authorities have a formal system of redress for complainants and local authorities should incorporate provision for addressing licence holders’ complaints about ADZs into those complaints procedures. There are also systems of appeal to the Local Government Ombudsman and to the Public Services Ombudsman in Wales should licence holders feel sufficiently aggrieved. They also have the facility to apply for judicial review. These measures are sensible and practical. I take the point that for some they may at first blush feel a bit unwieldy. When they are seen to work in practice, however, areas that have a problem with alcohol disorder on the streets caused by an accumulation of different sorts of licensed premises will see a longer term benefit. I have heard what the noble Lords have said this evening. We will keep this policy area under review. We would be foolish if we did not as we want to make these things work and work well for the communities that might be affected by them. For those reasons, I hope the House will support the regulations.