European Union (Amendment) Bill

This has been a very useful debate, and I am grateful to all noble Lords who have taken part. The noble Lord, Lord Robertson, spoke with great authority as a former Secretary of State for Defence and an eminent Secretary-General of NATO. The noble Lord said that he is passionate about Europe; I am also passionate about Europe. I worked in France for 11 years, and I spend a lot of time out there. I was very reassured by what the noble Lord said, and I make no apologies for raising these issues. None of us wants to see NATO being undermined by these provisions. It has served us well for 60 years, and we do not want to drive a wedge between us and our transatlantic allies. I very much hope that the noble Lord is right in his reassurances. The noble Lord was angry at the impotence of Europe, but that will continue as long as European countries have such small defence budgets or where they are so reluctant to share their capability with their allies. The noble Lord, Lord Lee of Trafford, said that I am raising doubts. We all want NATO and the EU to succeed. It is important that the amendments were tabled to enable us to debate all these important issues. I was heartened by the noble Lord’s confirmation of his party’s support for the primacy of NATO. The noble Lord, Lord Hannay, had yet another swipe at my party. Of course the United States wants to see a greater defence capability in Europe, but not all Americans whom I have spoken to share the noble Lord’s optimism that this will happen. The noble Lord, Lord Stoddart of Swindon, spoke about a European army, and he was concerned that it would happen bit by bit. My noble friend Lord Blackwell was concerned at the apparently different meanings and intentions of the treaty of Lisbon. The noble Lord, Lord Pearson of Rannoch, asked the Minister about the Farnborough agreement of 2000, and he asked where the money is for what he described as ““this dangerous dream””. I thank the Minister for his very full response to the amendments. As he said, the defence of our country is more important than anything else. The noble Lord addressed our amendments in great detail, and I was assured by his words about a NATO-friendly ESDP; time will tell whether that remains the case. I was assured by his general assurances on the primacy of NATO. I said at the outset that, with the exception of Amendment No. 18A, these were probing amendments. The noble Lord, Lord Hannay, said that Amendment No. 20 was a wrecking amendment. I said that it was a probing amendment. With regard to Amendment No. 18A, I was grateful to the Minister for his strong assurance that there would be no question of the EU forcing British troops to engage in any military activity against our will. The noble Lord included the word ““Parliament”” in the decision-making. On that basis, and his assurances on our other amendments, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. [Amendments Nos. 19 and 20 not moved.] [Amendment No. 21 had been withdrawn from the Marshalled List.] [Amendment No. 21A not moved.]