European Union (Amendment) Bill

The noble Baroness the Lord President puts her case very reasonably and quite persuasively, but the truth is that behind this debate is a very deep division between those who want practical, detailed co-operation in the regional grouping that is the European Union—that is, us—and those who are looking for a place in the sun, a world role, a place on the world stage, as many European leaders are calling for. They are looking, in the words of the noble Baroness, for ““a strategic global agenda”” and a representative who can lead on that: this near-permanent president, someone who can hob-nob with the United States President and the President of Russia and can answer the telephone when Henry Kissinger rings up for one number, as he once claimed he did when he wanted to find out European external policy. That always seemed to me a particularly absurd ambition, because when you ring Washington, you get about 10 different views of foreign policy there. Why he should think that we could unify in Europe, I do not know. The answer is that we cannot. We can unify on some things in practical ways, in coalitions of groupings of European nations, and we do so, but we do not need the rigidifying and codifying of this under new laws and new treaties and a central figure, who would inevitably become the celebrity—the Mr Europe—whose views were taken to be the views of Europe as a whole, where they could be formulated. I agree very strongly with my noble friend Lord Trenchard that in this modern, networked world, blocs are yesterday’s idea. Gathering together in some bigger grouping—or scrum, as it were—is not the way forward for a country such as this with all its historic abilities, qualities and skills in negotiating the chopping and changing of foreign policy with the complete changes in the centre of power and economic gravity that are taking place, which make our links with Asia as important as our links with our nearby neighbours in Europe. So there is an important deeper division. The noble Baroness's persuasive explanation does not convince me that that hers is the right way forward. This also damages the position of smaller countries. They may have signed up to the treaty—some have, but there has been a lot of grumbling. If the rotating system is to end, they will be cut out of the scene at the highest level for a time. The noble Lord, Lord Roper, took me to task about the definition of who was and who was not on the Council. I think that he was probably right, because he is very well informed on these things, but it does state in the treaty: "““The European Council shall consist of the Heads of State or Government of the Member States, together with its President and the President of the Commission. The High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy shall take part in its work””." That may not make him a full-time member, but he is there, taking part in the work of the European Council, as well as being the vice-president of the Commission. That is blurring the international and the supranational in ways that are very dangerous for the future. If we are blind to that, we will be blind to a lot of trouble in future. There was also an intervention, again from the noble Lord, Lord Roper, about CFSPs, a no-go area for qualified majority voting. That has been asserted by the Government and it is claimed in the treaty. I think we will be able to prove without challenge in later amendments that that simply is not so and that the CFSP is exposed to QMV arrangements in Article 32—I think it is renumbered as Article 17(2)—where the new Foreign Minister can bring forward decisions for QMV in the Council. There are 10 other areas where QMV also comes into foreign policy issues. Do not let us be quite so certain, as some people seem to be, that QMV is out of CFSP and that it is in an area where our veto is maintained. It is not. Finally—I know we want to be brief so we can get a little more work done tonight—as for the words of the noble Lord, Lord Dykes, I suspect he has been put up by his colleagues as the terrier who is designed to provoke the wicked Tories and to describe us as what we are not, which is anti-European. We are strongly pro-European and always have been in ways that many others, particularly the zealots who want to push everyone together in an over-integrated system, are not. In your Lordships' House, which I much enjoy, many of my individual friends are on the Liberal Democrat Benches. Collectively, however, I really cannot conceal my contempt for their supine yesterday Europhilia. They are the embodiment of everything that brings my beloved Europe into disrepute and which elevates the worst features of unaccountable bureaucratic power in Brussels and downgrades Europe’s best features of diversity, variegated vitality and democratic legitimacy.