Criminal Justice (Northern Ireland) Order 2008

My Lords, I again thank the noble Lord, Lord Rooker, for presenting the order, which in some ways is particularly complex and difficult. It is virtually a Bill waiting to be enacted. I understand that even more clearly now than previously. Generally, we support it. It is a positive revision of the criminal justice process in Northern Ireland. When I was first faced with the order and its extremely comprehensive supporting documents, I thought, ““Oh, God, we are back to the old days of trying to debate a Bill as an order in the dinner hour””. However, as the noble Lord said, this is the first major instrument, whether a Bill or a statutory instrument, that has come here after being debated—I hope in detail—analysed and supported by the Northern Ireland Assembly. This is a very special moment, certainly for me after enduring 10 years of these wretched statutory instruments on which we have to try to make decisions on behalf of other people. From that point of view, this is a superb moment. I hope that this measure will bring us more into line with the UK’s 2003 Act and that it will contain improvements because that Act has operated here for four years. I am sure that the officials who kindly briefed me this evening before we came into your Lordships’ House will have made significant improvements to this statutory instrument. I strongly support almost all the major provisions, particularly the removal of the automatic 50 per cent remission. That will make a big difference to criminals who think that they will get 10 years’ imprisonment but will be out in five years or perhaps fewer. I suspect that, in those circumstances, they tend to take life very much less seriously, not that I have any first-hand examples or even experience of that. The success of the statutory instrument will all depend on what resources not only the Government but the Northern Ireland Assembly make available. Undoubtedly, the prison population will increase as a result of the changes in the sentencing laws. I hope that the Minister will give the Government’s estimate in that regard. I imagine that somebody has done some work on this. I heard the noble Lord mention two figures, £14 million and £5 million, but what is the total anticipated increase in the cost of these changes to the judicial processes? Where will the resources come from and who will ensure that they are available over the next three to five years, because this will not all happen at once? The order makes it clear that its measures are to be phased in over several years. I suspect that they probably will not become completely operative until such time as criminal justice is totally devolved to the Assembly. Where will the increased prison population be housed and how will it be housed? I believe there are plans to knock down and redevelop Maghaberry prison, which would remove quite a number of bed spaces—I do not know the number—in one fell swoop. The inhabitants of those bed spaces would have to be put up somewhere else. I want to be reassured—this is not criticism, as I do not want to criticise anything here—that the Government understand what resources will be required under this excellent piece of legislation that we shall pass tonight, that they know where they will come from and who will be responsible for delivering them. I support the order, which is a terrific piece of legislation.