Regulatory Enforcement and Sanctions Bill [HL]

My Lords, although the noble Baroness has spoken to the amendment and presumably does not intend to speak further to it, I think that this is the moment for me to speak. Once again I say that I am grateful, in the context of what the Government seek to do, that a potential defendant—an alleged wrongdoer—has an opportunity to come forward and make an undertaking. He must be given such an opportunity. That is wise. It fits in well with the way that I want the Bill to work. Those of us who are worried about the enormous incursions into our legal procedures that the Bill represents will welcome it. In the discussions that take place before Third Reading that the noble Baroness has kindly offered, we will focus on whether all this can be done under exactly the existing system, among other things. I gave the example of how the Statistics Board was successful, occasionally by twisting people’s arms by issuing a summons, but reaching an accommodation with 73 out of 90 people and having to prosecute only 17, and getting 17 convictions. The present system works much better. The House will remember that Professor Macrory, whose name has much been relied on this evening, says that there are many areas in which the regulatory system works perfectly well. He also says that when he spoke to regulators, he found it difficult to get any of them to tell him where it was not working well; I gave chapter and verse—the page reference—when I last mentioned that. There is a great notion that it is not working well, but evidence has not been forthcoming from Professor Macrory, who is much more tentative on the subject. I see the noble Lord, Lord Razzall, in his place. He will have read Professor Macrory’s reports carefully and know that he is much less dogmatic about the whole structure. As Professor Macrory told the noble Viscount, Lord Eccles, and those who were able to attend his meeting—I was sorry not to be able to go—he is not the man who constructed the Bill but the academic who worked up ideas. He has laid just as much emphasis on training of the courts and on better and more competent prosecution. Here the Government recognise, by accepting the amendment and bringing it forward in their own name, that there are good ways to achieve this—oh! I am sorry; I cannot see what the noble Lord, Lord Bach, sees. Perhaps he was not even pointing at me.