Climate Change Bill [HL]

My Lords, I am grateful to both noble Lords who have spoken in this short debate. I am rather more grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, who did not ask me a specific question, as the noble Lord, the Earl of Montrose, did. As the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, generously indicated, we sought through the amendments to follow the clear indications and recommendations of the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee on how we should improve the Bill. We all recognise that consideration of the pilots and the rollouts is important. The noble Lord, the Duke of Montrose, asked quite a specific question about the cap on the charge to be made during the pilots or the rollouts. The first order, whether made during the piloting or after rollout, will contain this provision. It is up to local authorities to set the level of the charge and not for the Secretary of State to have a particular charge in mind. There is no reason why the charge would be the same across the country. In fact, I think we will recognise that there will be differences among local authorities in this. It goes without saying that we hope those differences will be within an acceptable range, otherwise the local authorities are likely to find that residents will be outraged if they discover that some local authorities are charging enormously greater sums than others. Nevertheless, variations will occur, as they do in the services that local authorities currently offer. Why is not the decision to roll out powers to all local authorities in England subject to the affirmative procedure? The Bill requires us to report finally on at least one of the pilots before deciding to roll out powers—the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Greaves. In reality, it is likely that we will need to report on most, if not all, of the pilots before having enough evidence to decide on rollouts. We therefore accept the point emphasised by the noble Lord, the Duke of Montrose, that this needs to be subject to careful scrutiny. We also hope to have a further debate in Parliament prior to any decision to roll out. This will be in addition to the careful scrutiny that the waste provisions will receive—indeed, have already received—as part of the Bill, and as they undoubtedly will receive at the other end.