Climate Change Bill [HL]

My Lords, the noble Lord who opened the debate and the noble Lord, Lord Redesdale, failed to understand the inevitability of other Ministers being involved. No one can deny that this is a hugely important issue; climate change inevitably assumes that role. But it is misconceived to think that other Ministers cannot be involved. They are regularly involved. It is many years since I was a Minister at the Department of Trade and Industry, but I recall very few occasions when I could make a decision, or the Secretary of State could do so, on his own. Inevitably, other Ministers have to be involved. That being the case, there can often be fierce disputes at Cabinet level; I think that the noble Baroness would agree that inevitably disputes arise between Ministers. They often do. They are finally resolved in favour of a solution that may or may not commend itself to this House; but they are resolved. Because of that, it is quite wrong to present a situation whereby the Prime Minister had automatically to be involved in the dispute in question. Because we have had collective responsibility in the Cabinet for many, many years, the Prime Minister inevitably—although I should not use that word again—has had to be involved in every issue that comes before the Cabinet. The noble Lords, Lord Teverson and Lord Redesdale, are wrong in supposing that the Prime Minister can stand back. He or she does not do that. It is wrong to imagine a situation in which the Prime Minister can abdicate responsibility. It does not happen like that.