Climate Change Bill [HL]

Perhaps I may make a brief observation from long and bitter experience in a related field. Of course the Minister cannot give undertakings about particular funding, and of course the Treasury has approved these amendments, but what happens on these occasions is not that someone says, ““You can’t do it””, but that the Treasury says, ““Well, it’s not as urgent as you say. You can do it next year or the year after and spread it over three years””, or gives another answer which delays the expenditure. Everyone who has dealt with programmes such as this has had that kind of experience. Sometimes you have to fight the battle extremely hard. That brings me back to the reporting point. If all these organisations report exactly what they have recommended and are then prepared to go public, they will be under great pressure not to do so. It is always the case that pressure is put on them. The noble Baroness, Lady Young, will know that sometimes she would like to say things but it is whispered in her ear that it might be better if she did not do so. She will deny it now, but I, who no longer have responsibilities in the field, speak from my own experience and do not expect that hers is very different. That brings us back to this whole issue about organisations having clear programmes and having to say what they want to do. Then, if they cannot meet the programme, they will be able to say, ““We would have done it, but the Treasury says that we have to do it over three years instead of over one year””. That is about the only discipline that we will ever have.