Climate Change Bill [HL]

I, too, added my name to Amendment No. 183A. Right at the end of her remarks, the noble Baroness, Lady Young, spoke of her fear of the leisurely process, which is exactly the point I was making in an earlier debate on the need for prompt action if we identify that something is wrong. The process takes quite a long time to unfold as you go through planning and all the rest of it; I cited the example of the Maidenhead flood defence scheme. Perhaps it is not surprising, as we have shared the same responsibility—the noble Baroness at the present time and I a few years ago as chairman of the National Rivers Authority—that we have come to identical conclusions. There was nothing that she said with which I did not agree wholeheartedly. It was very interesting; as, point by point, she ticked off certain matters, I observed that those were exactly the points that I had written in response to the Government’s speech. For example, she referred to the relationship with local authorities, which is particularly critical for the Environment Agency. For all its good work, it can find flow systems blocked by local authorities that take the wrong decisions on planning, or obstacles which the Environment Agency feels should be removed. The noble Baroness referred to electrical services. Certainly it was my experience that when one had floods, one was also often acutely nervous about the possibility of the total loss of power as electrical facilities were inadequately protected or inadequately raised above the flood. She spoke about rail services. Like many others, I was diverted by way of Bath on the way from Cardiff and Newport on Monday. As soon as you have a bit of rain, the main rail line from South Wales to Paddington floods. It is a regular event now and really some action has to be taken to see that that kind of thing does not happen. The noble Baroness made the point absolutely rightly that it is not enough just to have guidance; we need clearly stated requirements. I think that the word ““duty”” is absolutely correct. Having said that, it would be entirely wrong if I did not warmly welcome the amendments that the Minister has put down. They take us a great step forward and contain a great deal that is thoroughly worth while. I particularly welcomed what he said about hoping to have joint decision-making with the Welsh Assembly. It just happens that the main river systems of Wales flow into England. If you get it wrong in managing the upper reaches, you cause very severe flooding in England. It is absolutely vital that those who manage those river systems are acting jointly and not with separate aims and initiatives. It is quite hopeless if you simply shift flood problems from one area to another and I know from my own experience how easy it is for that to happen. I hope the Government will listen very carefully to the Environment Agency and to my experience which exactly parallels that of the noble Baroness. We have both had to deal with these problems. Our experience is identical and we have reached exactly the same conclusions. The views of the Environment Agency should bear great weight. There could not be an organisation with greater authority to speak on this topic. I welcome the Government’s amendments but I hope they will find, as the noble Baroness said, some way of incorporating, at least for the critical service providers, the duty that is so important.