European Union (Amendment) Bill

I think I have given way enough, as I know that other Members wish to speak. Let us take the test of Britain's interests. If a Member believes that Britain should be a modern, progressive European state and, as the right hon. Member for Ross, Skye and Lochaber (Mr. Kennedy) said, that it should be able to speak convincingly in a European context even sometimes after having spoken to the Americans, it must be credible in its relationships with the other EU partners. We must be credible on economic policy, on the single market, on the environmental issues—which most Members would probably agree can only be resolved internationally—and on foreign and security policy. The red line in that area is important as I believe the British people want to be able to have a distinction on foreign and defence policy, but in terms of most of the current challenges we face in the world we have no option but to work with, not against, our EU colleagues. We have to work with them, and we will not be able to have influence unless we have credibility. The treaty passes the British test of having a modern Britain in Europe. Is it the right treaty for Europe? If a Member wishes to vote against it on that basis, they must be able to demonstrate that it would cause more damage in Europe than it would cause benefit. The treaty's proposals are reasonably modest. They help to bind the EU together, and to establish a stronger relationship with the larger EU countries, which is demonstrated in the new regulations on voting powers that will come into place. It is also important that those countries feel a common bond with the new, emerging states. There has been agreement on that. If we look at the responses of the emerging states in the EU at the various Councils where these matters have been discussed, it is clear that they more than anyone else agree—Poland, perhaps, excepted, although it has also come round—that this is an important contribution to moving forward and to helping bind them into what they believe the EU is about. They want to be part of an EU that seeks to live in peace and stability. They want to have a demonstrable say in foreign affairs, and to have a sensible economic system that allows enterprise and growth but also looks after social concerns. When I visit the new countries, those are the issues that they say are important to them. If Members believe that that is the case, they have no case to argue against the treaty on the grounds that it is not in the interests of Europe. The treaty is in the interests of Britain and Europe, but there are other questions that must be resolved, such as the referendum. I must admit that I was not initially enthusiastic about having a commitment to a referendum. Now the question is whether there a difference between the constitutional proposition that was initially put forward and the treaty. That relates to what the original constitution and the treaty have to say about security policy and the role of the nation state. Those are important points, which we might address in more detail in Committee. However, the basic issue is that the constitution brought together the previous treaties and established a constitutional basis for the future of Europe so that if anyone wanted to amend it, they knew what they were amending. It was a fundamental constitution that would bind together the EU countries. The treaty is not that; instead, it represents the same kind of development that came about as a result of the Amsterdam and Nice treaties, and it is of far less consequence than the Maastricht treaty, whose impact was much more fundamental. Should there be a referendum? I know we will come on to that in our 20 days of consideration. If the treaty is different from the constitution, the commitment that the Government gave does not carry forward to the treaty. Therefore, it is proper that this House should say, ““Setting that aside, is it valid for us to allow the British people a referendum on the treaty that is currently before the House?”” If it was not valid to have a referendum on the Maastricht treaty all those years ago, what is the case for having one now? In anyone's calculation, this treaty is far less significant than the Maastricht treaty. If we have a referendum on this treaty, the EU will become ungovernable in the future should other countries want to have referendums on every single development and change that the EU must make in order to bring itself up to date with whatever are the issues of the day. The House should support the Second Reading, and I see no case for a referendum.