Local Transport Bill [HL]

moved Amendment No. 119B: 119B: Clause 110, page 84, leave out lines 12 to 14 The noble Lord said: My Lords, we now switch to the Welsh scene. My Amendments Nos. 119B and 119C refer to a major central argument between ourselves and the Government. I have some more points to make that I hope that the noble Baroness will either give in on or at least take away and do a little more research on. Let me remind your Lordships that the Assembly in Wales was devolved and set up with no tax-raising powers. That was the wish of the electorate of Wales and the wish of the Government as we understand it. We believe that the road charge for Wales in the way that it is laid out in the Bill is in fact a tax. If it is a tax it should not be in your Lordships’ House because no tax-raising powers are yet devolved to the Welsh Assembly. There is an ongoing law case between the American Embassy and the Government about C-charges in London: whether they are a tax, which the Americans claim, and therefore they should not be paying it; or whether they are some form of levy. It seems to us, having carried out a certain amount of research, that if it is not to be a tax, but a local charge or a levy, the particular charge must be tightly circumscribed so that the reasons for it and the way in which the money raised will be spent are quite specific. The Bill originally was set out, I understand, to help to pay for some alterations and improvements to the M4 into Wales. Indeed, the Secretary of State in another place said that the aim is to, "““provide very limited powers over trunk roads, and not all roads in Wales, so that the Assembly Government can bring in congestion charges or provide for road tolling, which might be the only way of financing the M4 relief road””." That is not totally specific, but I would not expect the Secretary of State to be that clear. There is a little bit of wriggle in there. However, the Bill clearly states on page 84 that there is provision for: "““the application of the proceeds of charges imposed under such schemes””—" referred to earlier in the clause— "““towards purposes relating to transport””." There is nothing specific in that—it is about as general as it can be. That is our point and I have to ask the noble Baroness to go away, if she cannot concede the point today, and either come back with some new wording as a government amendment, which I would be delighted to see, that clearly circumscribes the purpose in the Bill to raise a levy to help fund improvements to the M4, or admit that the Government are attempting to give tax-raising powers—quite illegally, I understand—without anyone having voted on it anywhere either in Wales or in the Welsh Assembly. I beg to move.