UK Parliament / Open data

Dormant Bank and Building Society Accounts Bill [HL]

Not at all. We will follow the principle of additionality. It is very important that we should, which is why we propose to set up the machinery in this way to guarantee that. Those are the principles under which the Big Lottery Fund has been obliged to operate since its inauguration under the lottery legislation. The second point that the noble Lord, Lord Hamilton, raised was about how much we are going to spend. We are pretty vague on how much we are going to get in, and particularly before the end of 2009. The Committee will recall that at Second Reading we had a range of estimates about how much might be made available. I cannot give the noble Lord the figures, but I can assure him that they are quite separate from the £670 million to which the Prime Minister referred. The right reverend Prelate made quite clear that we need a process of expenditure, on youth facilities in particular, that has imagination, enterprise and locality. There is a range of potential solutions to problems, some of which are idiosyncratic, but others are more general. Nevertheless, problems are addressed differently in different localities. I heard what the noble Viscount, Lord Eccles, said about the Big Lottery Fund. He was eloquent during the processes that established it, and I know he has scrutinised its operations closely. I hope I shall allay some of his greater anxieties on that score, and I shall come to that in a moment. However, he will recognise that an advantage of the Big Lottery Fund as a distributor is that it meets the right reverend Prelate’s concern that the distributor should be seen to be active in every nook and cranny of our country and in all the component parts of the United Kingdom. There are very few organisations that have that range and capacity. That is why we identified the Big Lottery Fund as the appropriate distributor. It could not have carried out the work that it has done over recent years without being subject to criticism. One cannot be involved in the distribution of the kind of resources it commands without critics—not least those who, disappointed by the decisions, are, by definition, critics—because they rightly hold their causes dear. There always will be criticism of and challenges to the Big Lottery Fund. I want to emphasise to the Committee that the choice of the Big Lottery Fund is directed towards the effectiveness with which we can reach right across the country. It has headquarters in England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland and a great deal of devolved regional representation. Over this period of time it has also gained extensive experience of the third sector and public sector delivery partners, ranging from large-scale national charities through to local grass roots community groups. I take on board the point made by the right reverend Prelate on how we serve the youth of the nation. I do not think that anyone would gainsay that it is an enormous challenge for everyone in the community. It will need local and selective understanding of the problems and the allocation of resources accordingly. On social and environmental purposes, we have identified youth services and increasing financial capability as priorities. In this day and age, we are all shocked when we see the level of financial illiteracy in circumstances where a great many clear and key family decisions depend upon an understanding of how to manage budgets and, where appropriate, savings. We are aware that this has not been a feature of British education in past years. Changes are now affecting education and, although our children are getting greater access to such education, we have an adult population which has in the past had limited exposure to these issues. So there is a great deal to be done there. The third issue is that of social investment in environmental objectives. At this stage, I am not able to give the reassurance that the noble Viscount, Lord Eccles, seeks. I am not sure there is anyone, either in government or on the planet, who would totally reassure him about the effectiveness of the Big Lottery Fund. However, it is a significant feature in the landscape, particularly for the third sector. The distribution of lottery funds is a complicated job which is subject to significant convulsions, if I can use that word in a neutral sense—I am talking about the changes which have been effected in regard to the resources made available to it by recent decisions—but it is difficult to identify any other organisation which could meet the necessary range of selectiveness and awareness of local situations. The effect of the second amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Newby, would be to remove the flexibility to spend on one or more of the three areas; it would require some spending on all three areas. Spending will of course occur on all three areas over a period of time but at this stage we do not know the level of available resources. There will be a question of priorities and all we are ensuring within the framework of the Bill is maximum flexibility with regard to expenditure. In doing so, we are ensuring that the legislation is fit for purpose. We are going to make clear priorities in regard to youth services and financial literacy. We are greatly interested in the innovative concepts which involve the third sector and we will address resources towards them. If we accept the noble Lord’s amendment, there will be a built-in rigidity, whereas we need flexibility in this legislation to deal with these matters. We have several other amendments which relate to this issue. I hope that I have given a precursor of the fact that I shall be pretty robust on additionality, as I sought to emphasise when responding to the appropriate question put by the noble Lord, Lord Hamilton. In addition, throughout our exchanges on the lottery, we invited all those who were worried about additionality to furnish the Government with a clear, legal, enforceable and operable definition of additionality. With all their fertile and intelligent resources, the Opposition were never able to meet that challenge, which is why I am afraid the Government have been obliged to express the legislation in the way they have. However, we shall return to this issue in due course.
Type
Proceeding contribution
Reference
697 c372-4GC 
Session
2007-08
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords Grand Committee
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