Climate Change Bill [HL]

I hope to change that sense of a lack of urgency. When I listen to this debate, I think about how old I might be in 2050; I look forward to being 89. I also remind myself that my daughter will be 58 and I hope very much to have some grandchildren, who will be, perhaps, in their thirties. When we start to think about climate change and how we are going to make really quite radical changes to our behaviour, the way we do business and conduct government, we need to inject a sense of urgency and remember that we are talking about the future of our children and grandchildren. I thank the noble Lord for reminding us of the need to inject a bit of urgency into our deliberations. The noble Lord highlighted that the Government, civil society and industry need the mechanisms and machinery in place to deliver the results that we all want to see. I know from experience of being in Committee that once you get into the detail, it can start to grind slowly. Noble Lords around the House will, I am sure, agree that the weight of responsibility on us to get the machinery and mechanisms right is absolutely self-evident. When the noble Earl, Lord Cathcart, talked about the kind of scaffolding that he was looking for within the Bill, he painted a picture around these interim targets. We on the Government Benches are talking about scaffolding that is much more based on budgets and budget-setting, advised by the climate change committee, and annual reporting and accountability to Parliament. I am not sure that we are all looking at things from such a different perspective, but we are getting ground into the detail. In speaking specifically to the amendments, the noble Lord will not be surprised to hear that we do not consider that Amendment No. 36 would add anything to the framework already provided in the Bill. The kind of scaffolding he is talking about is there already. In fact, it could undermine a key part of the Bill; that is, the idea of flexible five-year carbon budgeting to take us to 2050. That is the principle underpinning the Bill. There are clear reasons for including an interim target for 2020, which we have all just discussed. The noble Lord, Lord Crickhowell, who is not in his place just now, reminded us of the importance that the Joint Committee placed on this. Although he made points about the range, the committee particularly welcomed the importance to business represented by the 2020 target. However, to set further interim targets would restrict the flexibility which my noble friend Lord Rooker has highlighted time and again as being of key importance within this Bill. The five-year carbon budget framework provides us with important flexibility. Setting further interim targets at this stage would effectively dictate the trajectory to 2050 from the start. It is important that the committee is able to advise on the appropriate trajectory to 2050, based on the best information available at the time. This would enable the committee to take account of any future developments—for instance, in climate science, understanding the economics of climate change or the development of new, low-carbon technology. There is little point in setting the trajectory in statute now, as there are too many uncertainties. The trajectory would probably need to be revised significantly as we progressed towards the 2050 target. As has already been discussed in the context of amendments which called for annual targets and rolling annual targets, it is unclear how such mechanisms would interact. The intention to achieve increased long-term certainty would be undermined by these different mechanisms in the Bill. My noble friend Lord Rooker made commitments to consider quite a number of matters between now and Report, not least how we can strengthen the annual reporting processes to Parliament, which go some way to reassuring noble Lords opposite that we take seriously concerns about transparency and accountability. The amendment refers to a 2020 target. As we have made clear—my noble friend just highlighted it—the review of the 2050 target by the Committee on Climate Change will also consider the impact on the 2020 target. We are already committed to considering whether the review should be put in statute, as my noble friend has just reminded the Committee. My noble friend said that there is a great need for urgency. That is why the Government have brought forward, and hope to take a lead with, this groundbreaking Bill. With those comments, I hope that the noble Earl will consider withdrawing his amendments.