Local Transport Bill [HL]

This is a useful opportunity to discuss a range of issues which have a laudable aim, in particular the aim of ensuring that passengers know how and where they can complain or take forward unresolved issues. It is in bus companies’ interests and in passenger transport executives’ interests that people know how and where to make a complaint because that provides important information and can help to resolve profound problems with the service and improve the quality of that service. It is in everyone’s interests that complaints, mechanisms and public fora work well. It is right that where a passenger has an issue or an important comment to pass on that there are well established channels for doing so. It could be argued that by placing obligations on bus companies to publicise details will lead to them taking more seriously the comments and complaints. I think we would all want to sign up to that. While I agree with the sentiments behind Amendment No. 69A, a number of complications arise from it that will need further consideration before the Government can determine how best to deliver the spirit of this amendment. First, the Department for Transport’s consultation document, Options for Strengthening Bus Passenger Representation, details several ways of delivering a bus passenger champion. As the noble Baroness, Lady Scott, suggested, that could be done by enhancing the role of Bus Users UK, a non-statutory body. We could build on that. We are also including powers in this Bill to add functions to the Rail Passengers Council—known as Passenger Focus. That could provide another possible route. However, we need to ensure that any obligation on operators to make information available would apply equally to any of these options. Whatever approach we decide on, we must ensure that each of those options is viable and workable. If the intention behind the amendment is to have complaints procedures publicised so that a passenger knows where to go if they have an unresolved issue, the legislation needs to be more flexible about what information is required. In the spirit of the question asked by the noble Baroness, Lady Scott, and pending the outcome of our consultation on the best way of approaching passenger representation, I undertake to ask colleagues in the department to ensure that we liaise with the Confederation of Passenger Transport and the Bus Partnership Forum to see what they think can be done. We also might want to consider whether there should be different requirements in different parts of the country, because not everything is the same everywhere, and in some areas in which a local authority has implemented a quality partnership scheme, or a quality contracts scheme, it may be more appropriate to use the local authority and route complaints and concerns through that channel. In conclusion, I agree that there may well be a place for a statutory obligation. We need to look more carefully at whether a new statutory obligation would be the best and most appropriate way of dealing with the point, or whether it can be dealt with under existing legislation or guidance. If the noble Lord is happy to withdraw the amendment, I will consider the issue further and write to all noble Lords before Report with suggestions as to how we might achieve the objective which I think we mostly all share. On Amendment No. 69ZA, I am grateful to my noble friend for providing another opportunity to talk about the size and shape of bus passenger champions. I listened with interest to the points that have been made. As I said earlier, we are giving more consideration to how we can find the best way of taking this forward. One reason for that is to ensure that the body will be allowed to influence large national stakeholders, including central government. It is estimated that about 60 per cent of bus services are operated by one of the big five transportation companies, such as FirstGroup and Stagecoach, so it is essential that the new bus champion has the status and standing to get right to the heart of those organisations. On a further point, we have no formal watchdog, so any new statutory body will necessarily take time to develop and the new process may need to be incremental. I recognise that many will see the need for local representation, and although I have made it clear that the Government’s first position on this matter is that we are consulting, I should make it very clear that we are also listening and will be interested to receive a broad range of views. It is important to us that the legislation is flexible. I assure noble Lords that, as currently drafted, it will not preclude the setting-up of regional offices or regional committees as a network if that were considered to be the best way of dealing with the issue. I am grateful again to the noble Lord, Lord Low, for tabling Amendment No. 70, which provides an opportunity to consider ensuring that disabled people and their needs are right at the heart of developing a network of committees. The Government have done a lot to improve accessibility in public transport. We introduced regulations that specify the minimum technical accessibility requirements that are designed to make buses and coaches more accessible to disabled people. It is interesting that the number of wheelchair-accessible, low-floor buses increased from 8.2 per cent in 1997-98 to 58 per cent in 2006-07. So there has been a large growth in that particular type of bus. As a product, we can argue for the campaigning in the legislation. We have also introduced regulations to ensure that certain obligations on the providers of services not to discriminate against disabled persons in the provision of goods, facilities and services apply to bus operators. I entirely agree with the aim behind the amendment but would suggest that there might be a different way of implementing the obligation. The Disability Discrimination Act 1995 already places certain general duties on all public authorities in carrying out their functions. If established, we would expect the Public Transport Users Committee to be a ““public authority”” within the definition in Part 5A of that Act, and therefore subject to the same general duty as all other public authorities. The purpose of the Disability Discrimination (Public Authorities) (Statutory Duties) Regulations 2005 is to ensure better performance by specified public authorities of the duty to have due regard to the need to eliminate disability discrimination. The regulations contain a schedule listing those public authorities to which the obligations apply. An amendment to the regulations was made this year— 2007—adding 28 new public authorities; Passenger Focus, the rail passengers’ committee, is one of them. The Office for Disability Issues carries out an exercise beginning in April to canvass further public body names. If a Public Transport Users Committee is established, we agree that it would be right to include it as a public body in those regulations. I hope therefore that the noble Lord will accept that the appropriate powers and procedures are in place to enable this to happen, and will agree to withdraw his amendment.