Local Transport Bill [HL]

Both amendments relate to very serious points. For the first time in Committee, I agree entirely with the words of my noble friend Lord Rosser. These matters should certainly be included in the Bill, but the clause does not properly include them. Mind you, this does point out a few disparities in the system that my noble friend seeks to embrace. Indeed, the whole principle of franchising, which is behind the principle of quality contracts, depends on someone bidding lower than someone else to obtain a particular franchise. For some reason, my noble friend and those who brief him apparently overlooked this point, so we come to the clause. Of course it is essential that pension provision is properly protected. Indeed, reputable companies such as FirstGroup and National Express did so when they acquired companies. National Express provided a mirror-image scheme to the local government pension scheme to guarantee that employees continued to be protected and enjoy the same benefits that they would have enjoyed had the company that was acquired—West Midlands Travel—remained in the municipal sector. Similarly, FirstGroup gave exactly the same mirror-image guarantees to the companies that they acquired. A great deal has been said about this in our debates on the Bill, but I have to point out that the London experience was based on entirely the opposite premise. The original franchises for London were based on the cheapest operator bidding on the ground of buying out the terms and conditions, including the pension provision, of many bus workers in London at the time. Yet we are told that this is the example that local authorities and those who speak on their behalf before your Lordships should follow. It was not until Transport for London and the current Mayor’s present policies were actually followed that many of the working conditions which the London bus staff had been deprived of were restored. I would go so far as to say that working conditions have nothing to do with regulation or deregulation. The London experience, and its admitted benefits, is based entirely on the amount of money that is being thrown at—I choose my words carefully—the London bus industry. Apparently, people see no contradiction between demanding a franchising system and then saying, ““But hey, you’ve got to protect the interests of the workforce””. I agree with them; you should protect the interests of the workforce. The more the interests of the workforce are protected, the less likely it is that there will be quality contracts in the areas in which people are now advocating that philosophy. There is more to this, of course, than wages and pensions. Companies such as FirstGroup and National Express have share-saver schemes for their employees. Under existing Revenue rules, share-saver schemes are available only to the employees of that particular company. If a company such as National Express or FirstGroup—I name those two because they are the ones I have the most experience of—bid for a quality contract and failed, their employees would, under existing Revenue regulations, have to give up their participation in the share-saver scheme. I wonder whether my noble friend and those who brief him have discussed these matters with those employers or whether he would consider adding to his amendment that some provision ought to be made—although I very much doubt whether Revenue and Customs would allow it—for share-saver schemes to be transferred across in the event of a franchise operation. Both the amendments are eminently sensible and I hope that my noble friend can accept them. I would be delighted to hear his view on some of the other benefits, not just the ones that I have already mentioned. Some people in local government talk about competition and the lack of it. All too often, smaller competing companies—for very good reasons, although I do not defend them—do not provide things such as canteens, proper uniforms or union recognition. Why does my noble friend not write that into some of his amendments? I am sure that it will not come as a great surprise to him that some smaller companies that would take the quality contracts that he and those who brief him are so anxious to include in the Bill would love to be able to derecognise many of the major trade unions in the industry. I hope that he will come back with further amendments to make sure that they do not. I repeat that if my noble friend accepts both amendments, as the Government should, it will reveal the nonsense of quality contracts and the injustices of the franchising system that lies behind quality contracts. Finally, if we are to have proper, comprehensive bus services, we should pay the staff properly and give them adequate working conditions, not subject their employment conditions to the lottery of franchising and quality contracts. I hope that my noble friend can accept the amendments and I congratulate those who have tabled them for the common sense that lies behind them.