Dormant Bank and Building Society Accounts Bill [HL]

moved Amendment No. 31: 31: Clause 7, page 5, line 24, after ““deposit-taker”” insert ““(including National Savings and Investments)”” The noble Lord said: We enter, I hope, more straightforward waters. In her opening remarks, my noble friend Lady Noakes said that there were many respects in which we thought the Bill needed to be widened. In a sense, the purpose of this amendment is to avoid doubt because it relates to Clause 7, which is concerned with the definition of ““bank””. The question is whether the Bill will cover, and whether the participants will include, National Savings & Investments. In my view, it certainly should. It would be bizarre if the clearing banks and building societies disposed of their dormant accounts but the National Savings Bank did not. Members of the Committee will note that I use the expression, ““National Savings Bank””. It is a little over 35 years since I suddenly found myself the Minister responsible for national savings. It was the heyday of savings; the savings ratio then was something for which the present Chancellor would be green with envy. In the aftermath of, ““You have never had it so good””, and Harold Macmillan, ERNIE—the system of premium bonds introduced by him—was so successful that I had to go to somewhere near Blackpool to set off a new number-generating machine because the first one could not cope with the number of donations to national savings. I also had to go to Glasgow to look round the national savings establishment there. What most impressed me, and indeed, which they impressed on me, was the extent of the dormant accounts. I presume that there is an even greater number now in the national savings arrangements. Clearly, if we were to distribute these to their rightful owners, we would have to set some de minimis amount, as some of the amounts involved are very small indeed. The reason for arguing that it be included in the Bill is that it is operated as a bank. I will not say who the owner is—it is not me. I have discovered a Post Office Savings Bank book, which clearly describes the system as a bank. It is possible to make deposits, withdrawals, have cheques made out, and so on. It also pays interest at one ha’penny per £1 for each complete calendar month. Clearly, it operates as a bank, paying a rather better rate of interest than NatWest now pays on my current account. It was a good system. You could buy government stocks, take out annuities, and so on. At all events, it was clearly a bank. As I said, a de minimis amount would probably have to be fixed, but the rightful owners ought to be informed and attempts to trace them made. Perhaps the Minister will confirm that the system will include that in the arrangements for reuniting people, and if necessary, pass on the assets to the reclaim fund. In an earlier debate, he mentioned that national savings were included in some other aspect of the Bill. I was not quite clear to what he was referring then. Anyway, I hope that it can be included. It would be absurd for the private sector to try to find dormant account holders and for the public sector not to do so. I beg to move.