Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs

I take that point. One cannot measure a Government's performance, or the performance of a Ministry such as DEFRA, simply on the volume of legislation—what is important is how effective it is. We must remember that 80 per cent. of our countryside is managed by British farmers. I would like to lay to rest the impression given by the Secretary of State and by the right hon. Member for Scunthorpe (Mr. Morley) that Conservative Members are somehow attacking the ordinary individual DEFRA official. [Hon. Members: ““You are!””] We are not doing that. When my hon. Friend the Member for East Surrey (Mr. Ainsworth) mentioned the matter, he was quoting a farmer. It must be understood that the interface between the Government—DEFRA—and the farming industry is the official on the ground, who unfortunately, as DEFRA's representative pitching up at the farm gate, takes on the chin the farmer's anger about over-regulation and disasters such as the Rural Payments Agency and the foot and mouth epidemic. They are only doing their master's bidding. The actual fiasco of the Rural Payments Agency was nothing to do with DEFRA officials; it went straight to the Secretary of State's predecessor, who decided, contrary to the advice of the European Union, most farming unions and others in this country, to opt for a system that mixed historic and land-based elements. In Wales and Scotland they opted for the historic one, which is why farmers in Wales and Scotland are receiving payments today.