Climate Change Bill [HL]

My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Haskel, and to pick up on his last comment. The Bill is enormously important; it is a challenge to us all and we should not underestimate the task in hand. Its success is important not only to us in the Chamber but to our families, the people who live within our immediate communities and, more importantly, to the whole world. The climate change here is very kind compared with other parts of the world but we will remember that we have seen the summer appearing in April—a friend said he had never sheared his sheep in April before but this year he had to—and then summer being completely washed out, followed by flooding and drought in certain parts of the world. Clearly the climate is changing and we need to respond to it. For me this is a moral issue—as it is for the noble Lord, Lord Puttnam, and the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of London—and we need to act now. I support the Bill in the main although, like others, I wish to see it strengthened. It could and should have been brought forward sooner so that we could have joined the negotiations on the new global climate agreement with our own targets firmly in place and our position crystal clear. As the Bill stands, our 2050 target will be, "““at least 60% lower than the 1990 baseline””," but it will be subject to amendment following, among other things, the advice of the Committee on Climate Change. Sadly it appears from the Bill that this will not be given for the first time until mid-2009, with the Government’s response not due until mid-October of that year, the end of which is the deadline for agreement on a new global position. I hope the Minister will advise us on the strength and commitment of the new committee. Will it be able not only to give advice to the Government but to ensure that that advice is taken on board by Ministers? Clearly as it is set up at the moment it is in the position of giving advice to the Government, rather than ensuring a government response on the advice given. In studying the Bill, I have found it quite difficult to envisage how carbon emissions and carbon savings will be calculated. Why is it not considered possible to do this now for carbon emissions that occurred back in 1990? After all, it is nearly 18 years ago. I would be grateful for an explanation from the Minister which might rid me of the suspicion that the Bill contains a number of let-out clauses which are convenient for coping with any failure to attain targets. In that context, I am also surprised that there are no immediate targets for other greenhouse gases, an issue to which other noble Lords have referred. Our agricultural industry will be greatly affected by the Bill, if only because in one sense it stands to lose the most if climate change control and emissions reduction is unsuccessful. The Bill defines ““UK removals”” of greenhouse gases as the removals of gas from the atmosphere due to, "““land use, land-use change or forestry activities in the United Kingdom””." There does not appear to be any other method of gas removal allowed for the purpose of calculating net emissions, nor any possibility of changing that definition. I find this surprising and I wonder whether the Minister will clarify the issue. As agricultural methods change, so we shall now have to be capable of measuring, monitoring and verifying greenhouse gas emissions under conditions of reduced or zero tillage systems, whole farming systems and any new methods that may be introduced. Who will be responsible for devising the necessary measurement methods and how much assistance will be made available by the Government? It is not all bad news for farmers; there are great opportunities out there for them. As the natural fossil fuel supplies reduce, the power of the sun and water and the growth of plants will enable new discoveries. Recently at the Oxford farming conference, and again here in London last week, Professor Diana Bowles spoke at length about that. I hope that the climate change committee will reflect on those opportunities. I slightly disagree with the suggestion of the noble Lord, Lord Turnbull, on the make-up of the committee. I wonder how he defines ““experts”” and whether they are to be purely scientific experts or whether, because this will affect land greatly, they will include experts in land management. I see him nodding his head. I am grateful for that clarification. Clearly this will affect land so much that we need to have an input from that side. Adaptation to climate change is most important, as evidenced already by the need for flood control measures around our coasts, caused mainly by storms and rising sea levels, and inland, caused by extreme rainfall and the impact it has on land. I welcome this part of the Bill but I am surprised that there is no mention of the introduction of prohibitions—for example, to curb the profligate use of energy—or new and different standards for those who make, import or sell goods. Will the trading schemes be able to do that? The suggestion is that some capping may well be introduced. Contemplation of the trading schemes is, for me, a difficult process. The EU carbon Emissions Trading Scheme has attracted much criticism, even though it applies to only a relatively small number of entities. The implications of a greater number of schemes, some of them applying to a large number of participants, are not so easy to grasp. The Explanatory Notes cite the example of supplying heating fuel. Oil and coal tend to be supplied, by businesses that do little else, to individual family or single-person households, to the young and the very old. But people move house and their household numbers change. Is it right that those individual companies will try to persuade people to use less when their whole purpose is to increase their sales? Waste reduction schemes, of which the noble Lord, Lord Oxburgh, spoke, are apparently to be constructed only for domestic wasters. Over 90 per cent of this country’s scrap and rubbish comes from manufacturers, retailers, importers, service providers and others, to say nothing of state-run or state-related enterprises. That is neither fair nor likely to provide sufficient waste reduction. I wonder if the Minister will refer to that later. Personal savings are a matter for each one of us. Individual responsibilities are for us to decide. The right reverend Prelate the Bishop of London spoke about the role the church has to play, and I agree with him. I was much encouraged recently when I visited churches that have taken part in eco-congregational schemes, which are the church’s way of looking at its own carbon footprint. I was reminded of the Christian Aid slogan some time back in the 1980s, when we were asked to live simply so that others could simply live. I am a little disappointed that as yet we do not have the details of the Energy Bill, because it is inextricably linked to this Bill. There is great overlap between them and their aims. I shall reflect on some of the information I have had from outside bodies, which believe that the targets are too low; that aviation and shipping should have been included; that we need to strengthen the committee; that annual milestones should be reached; and, whatever else, that research and scientific development are extremely important. Agriculture has its part to play within renewables, and will in future have a bigger part to play in energy and balancing food security. I welcome the Bill. This is a moral issue, one on which individually we can do quite a bit, but collectively we can do so much more.