House of Lords Bill [HL]

My Lords, I do not think that we will get any further on this matter. We should move on. I want to respond to my noble friend in relation to primacy. We do not intend to undermine the primacy of the Commons. All parties and all reports on Lords reform in the past 10 to 15 years have emphasised the continuance of the primacy of the Commons. As the noble Earl, Lord Onslow, suggested, aside from the discussions around the conventions, it is the case that the Parliament Act, the fact that the Government must retain confidence in the Commons, the fact that the Prime Minister and senior Ministers are Members of the Commons, the fact that the Commons have control over supply are all fundamental contributors to the primacy of the Commons. We have had a pretty good debate. As I said at the beginning, no matter whether it is sensible to take an interim course or to go for comprehensive reform, the noble Lord, Lord Steel, has done a great service to this House in bringing this Bill before us. Clearly, some technical matters will need to be discussed as the Bill proceeds through your Lordships’ House. I have said that the Government will listen very carefully to the comments made by noble Lords on the Bill and, indeed, on wider matters of Lords reform, but I must, in all fairness, say to noble Lords that the Government have set out the process by which they seek to achieve a White Paper that brings forward comprehensive proposals in light of the vote in March in the other place for an 80 per cent or 100 per cent elected House. We do wish to engage and listen to all Members of Parliament on these important matters, but, equally, the prospect of party agreement, of manifesto pledges and of comprehensive reform is in reach. It is important that we do everything that we can to achieve that.