Pensions Bill

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Noakes, for tabling these amendments. It gives us a chance to review again the matter she raised in Committee. I do not believe that we are apart in what we believe should be the outcome of these arrangements. I understand the noble Baroness’s concerns, but I can reassure her that the Government recognise how vital it is that the authority is seen as independent, that it operates with integrity, and that its processes are transparent to help build trust and credibility in personal accounts. We have obviously taken that very seriously when drafting the provisions in the Bill, and, in particular, in relation to the appointment of the non-executive members of the authority. The non-executive directors are the custodians of the Government’s process. They represent an independent check on the Executive. Part of their role is to ensure that the body, as a whole, is run with probity. In making such appointments, we are therefore following all appropriate guidance, ensuring that candidates declare any conflicts of interest at the earliest possible stage of the recruitment exercise to ensure the independence of the non-executive members. Paragraph 2 of Schedule 6 makes this process very transparent. The noble Baroness asked whether there should be one rule for the non-executives and another for the executives. If we accepted her amendments, we could equally ask why there was one rule for the executive members, who were employees of the authority, and another for other employees of the authority. The executive members of the authority are public sector employees, working full time for the delivery authority. While it will still be necessary for executives to declare a conflict of interest—indeed, the information pack for candidates makes that very clear—the issue is not the same as that of non-executives. As with all other authority employees, the contract of employment for executives will cover such things as conflicts of interest, and they will need to comply with the authority’s code of conduct for staff. That is the mechanism. It is also important to remember that the delivery authority will be run in line with the principles of good corporate governance, which includes ensuring that any conflicts of interest are properly declared, considered and recorded. Schedule 6(13) ensures that during all meetings of the authority, anyone who has an interest in any matter to be discussed must declare it, and that the declaration will be recorded. In addition, the authority will be required to have a register of members’ interests. Those measures offer reassurance that any interests will be dealt with appropriately by the authority. I hope that that has reassured the noble Baroness on that point. Clearly, conflicts of interests must be avoided in relation to executive and non-executive directors alike, but the route to tackle them for executive directors is through contracting arrangements, as for the rest of the employees of the authority. Turning to what constitutes a conflict of interest for the purposes of paragraph 2 of Schedule 6, we have defined a conflict of interest in subparagraph (6) as any interest, financial or otherwise, "““which is likely to affect prejudicially the discharge by him of his functions as a member of the Authority””." The inclusion of other interests allows a wide range of factors to be taken into account when considering whether a conflict of interest exists. We consider that that would also include circumstances in which a conflict of interest may arise in relation to a person connected with a non-executive. We believe that the description in the Bill automatically encompasses that but goes further. Amendments Nos. 17 and 18 specify further what might constitute a conflict of interest for non-executive members. The former dictates that the interest of a person connected with a non-executive can constitute a conflict of interest. The latter refers to Section 252 of the Companies Act 2006 to provide a definition of ““connected persons””. Although I agree with the spirit of those amendments, which seeks to ensure that the most vigorous criteria are applied when assessing conflicts of interest, the Government’s approach achieves that better—or equally. The paragraph will require the delivery authority, in making any future non-executive appointments, to follow the same procedure regarding potential conflicts of interests—under paragraph 2(5). So as it stands, in each case, that could include the interests of a person connected with a non-executive. I hope that that explanation will assure the noble Baroness that the existing provisions in the Bill concerning appointments and conflicts of interest are perfectly adequate. I have heard nothing in what she said that suggests that we are seeking a different outcome on this, but I believe that the way that the Bill is drafted is one route to achieving that objective.