Statistics and Registration Service Bill

My Lords, I am grateful to all noble Lords who have spoken in this short debate. I think we are reaching a broad measure of agreement about the way in which we should go forward. In response to the noble Lord, Lord Oakeshott, whenever the words ““future proof”” occur, I give an involuntary shudder. However, I shall defend our position on this because we did not want to give an illustration or a definition of the borderline between national statistics and official statistics that acted as a complete barrier to movement. We are all too well aware that that definition is in the process of change—as I speak I have no doubt. Certainly, on future developments we have to assume that whole ranges of statistics that emerge obtain a salience which requires them to meet the full rigour of the code of practice and sanction and be included within national statistics. That was the only point on future proof. We would hope that the structure had sufficient malleability about it so that statistics could move from one category to another. The other point that has emerged in this short debate is the crucial stance of the Government that there has to be a barrier between national and official statistics. The noble Lord, Lord Jenkin, says that this strategy may not work. He is right that this is a process of discussion and debate between government departments, the National Statistician and the Office for National Statistics. That goes without saying. And it will be with the board. The reason we want the board is to reinforce the National Statistician’s position regarding the control of these statistics and to challenge departments and other bodies which produce official statistics about their quality. Of course there will be give and take on this matter and none of that can be laid down in statute. The point I seek to make, which was reflected on by the noble Lord, Lord Turnbull, in his contribution, is that of course there will be other measures from the board denying the status of a national statistic to any statistic which is produced outwith the code. Of course there will be other sanctions and warnings. Ministers will be under very considerable pressure if the suggestion is that the basis on which they are formulating policy is faulty statistics which do not comply with the code. It is quite clear that most of the time the board will be drawing anxieties to Ministers’ attention to improve performance to guarantee that the code is complied with. That is how government works and how we would expect it to work in a mature society. However, in law we have to have some form of sanction. We cannot say that the process will be of people necessarily agreeing to a common standard. That is why we have the sanction and why the sanction, so being applied, involves such work for the board that we could not possibly say that it can apply this sanction across the whole range of official statistics. We are saying that it can apply the sanction for national statistics and it can begin the process of demanding that certain statistics are of such import that they need to be brought within this framework. Pressure is put on departments accordingly. I do not underestimate the difficulty of the board’s work. That is why, if noble Lords do not mind my saying so, we all respect the role of the National Statistician, who will be chief executive of the board. Even working three days a week, the chairman of the board will be a pretty substantial figure and will command a fairly reasonable rate of remuneration. We recognise that we are creating a body with very formidable duties, not ones which are easy application of rules but ones which involve substantial interaction with powerful producers. I never underestimate the significance of government departments in looking after their own interests in these terms; neither does anyone in this House, least of all the noble Lord, Lord Jenkin, who has repeatedly pointed that out to me during the course of proceedings on the Bill. I emphasise again that, first, we seek to produce some fluidity whereby those statistics that are included in national statistics can change over time. Secondly, in order to be within that framework, there is a significant sanction. To have that sanction, we need a differentiation between national statistics, which can be subject to such sanction and official statistics, which are too numerous for the board to be able to enforce compliance. Nevertheless, the board is establishing a code of practice that it will expect to be the lode star to which all official statistics aspire. It will set standards that will be mandatory on all categories of national statistics but will also be the guide for all official statistics that are intended to have national approval. The process of sanction will not often, if at all, be as crude as the sanction in the Bill. Ministers will be all too conscious of the fact that serious bad publicity will attend them if they are guilty of basing their policies on statistics which, in the board's opinion, fall short of the code. That sanction will apply long before the actual sanction in the Bill, which is also necessary. If the department does not measure up, such statistics would lose their status. The implications for Parliament and the wider public would be bound to be very significant.