Parliament: Waging War (Constitution Committee Report)

My Lords, I apologise if I suggested in any way that I was not aware that the noble and gallant Lord was the Chief of the Defence and a very successful Chief of the Defence Staff. I know it and I hope that I did not suggest anything else. Perhaps I may make this point to the noble and gallant Lord. What he appears to be suggesting is that we should do what we did in relation to Iraq 2; that should always be the way forward. Does that not demonstrate that it does not solve the problems, because I think that that was implicit in what the noble and gallant Lord has said? The issues he identified—namely, the questions people are asking about the Iraq 2 conflict now—are not in any way dealt with by the convention he is arguing for. It does not meet the point. I agree with the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mayhew of Twysden, about the importance of the debate, but I fundamentally disagree about the need for a convention. The noble and learned Lord is normally someone who says that if something is broadly working, we should not change it, so I am surprised to find him supporting this change to the position. The noble Lord, Lord Lester of Herne Hill, supports an Act of Parliament. I am strongly against that for the reasons I have already given. I am completely persuaded by the speech of the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Craig of Radley, on the consequences of such a change. I hope that noble Lords will read his speech. While I do not agree with everything said by the noble Lord, Lord Norton of Louth, I agree completely with his basic premise that the convention proposed by the committee missesthe point. I do not agree with my noble friend Lord, Lord Parekh, who raised another point when he asked whether there should be a two-thirds majority. The committee quoted the evidence of Mr Sebastian Payne who asked what would happen if there was a 51/49 per cent vote in favour. With respect, all those difficulties are not thought through. I recognise the great military experience of the noble Lord, Lord Garden—it is much greater than mine—but he supports the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Bramall. Again, I would say that the other side of the coin needs to be considered as well. The noble Earl, Lord Sandwich, put forcefully the views of the committee, but once more for the reasons I have given, I do not agree with him. I detected in the speech of the noble Lord, Lord Goodlad, a position quite similar to that of the noble Lord Luce, which is one of loyal support for the conclusions of the committee. But one is left with the sense that the flexibility of the current position might well be a better way to deal with these problems. I have already referred to the speech of the noble Lord, Lord Luce. The noble Lord, Lord Smith of Clifton, said that Iraq is the catalyst, but he did not deal with the critical point that the convention argued for was followed in relation to Iraq. Therefore, what more is being sought? The noble Viscount, Lord Bledisloe, asks: if you always go to Parliament asa matter of practice, why not just agree to the convention? The current situation offers a huge degree of flexibility which works, as was described when I went through all the recent conflicts. The noble Lord, Lord Maclennan, supports legislation, but I am against it. The noble Lord, Lord Kingsland, was as measured as ever, being neither supportive of nor opposing the report. I end by saying that this is a most impressive report. That I disagree with it for the reasons I have given does not in any way detract from the huge contribution made by the noble Lord, Lord Holme, to our constitution. The right thing to do is to encourage further debate on the issue. The Government willkeep this matter under review. It is not just the Government who have a role in this debate, but all parliamentarians.