Justice and Security (Northern Ireland) Bill

My Lords, I begin by reminding the noble Baroness of what I said several times in Committee; that is, that the commission is not an enforcement body. She speaks as though it is but it is not. I must make that clear. If it were an enforcement body, the point that she makes about notice and the timetable would be more valid. As we are now on the Floor of the House, I should point out that, since 2004, some 17 separate bodies have inspected the Northern Ireland prison service. Those are: the Prisoner Ombudsman for Northern Ireland; Criminal Justice Inspection Northern Ireland, which carried out a thematic inspection; Her Majesty’s Chief Inspector of Prisons, who carried out joint inspections; the Northern Ireland Commissioner for Children and Young People; the Mental Health Commission; the Regulation and Quality Improvement Authority; the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee; the Independent Monitoring Board; the Interception of Communications Commissioner; the Equality Commission for Northern Ireland; the Office of Surveillance Commissioners; the International Committee of the Red Cross; the United Nations Committee against Torture; the Adult Learning Inspectorate; the Health and Safety Executive; the Health Promotion Agency; and, of course, the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission. Therefore, the idea that—and I am not saying that she was saying this—the prison service is not being inspected does not stand up. I want to reinforce the point that I made before: the Human Rights Commission is not an enforcement body, and the points that she raised about time would have greater validity if it were. The clause that the noble Baroness seeks to remove allows the public authorities that initial 15-day period during which they can appeal against the terms of reference for an investigation, before the commission can use its new statutory power to access places of detention as part of an investigation. Importantly, as she indicates, the Bill allows the commission to have unimpeded access to places of detention without providing advanced notice of each visit. It is right that such a significant power should be subject to an initial period of consultation with relevant authorities. The issuing of terms of reference and the requirement to allow 15 days to pass during which a public authority can appeal ensures that that consultation takes place. Importantly, as she said, once the 15-day period has passed, or after any appeal begun in that period has ended, access to a place of detention can be restricted only after a court has ruled in favour of a public authority. Therefore, this appeal process cannot be used as a mechanism to prevent investigations and the court can only restrict access if the commission has failed to meet its clear statutory duty as set out in the Bill. In other words, once the 15-day period is over and the consultation has taken place—let us say successfully—it can go in at any time it wants, at the minimum possible notice. Therefore, the issue of the timing of access does not arise. As I have said, there are already many inspection and oversight bodies in place in Northern Ireland and those 17 separate bodies have looked at the prison service since 2004. We believe that it is right that the commission should be furnished with the power to carry out unannounced and unimpeded visits to places of detention as part of its investigations into human rights issues. That is absolutely clear. There is no qualification whatever on that. As we discussed in Committee, the Human Rights Commission will have the power to carry out unannounced and unimpeded visits to places where people are held in detention—and these are not just prisons—once the initial notice of the terms of reference has taken place. It will not have to give notice; that is there for the future. However, we think that there is a need for public authorities and other roles-of-accountability bodies to be taken into account, as these are public bodies that we are dealing with; it is not as though they are private bodies that nobody knows about.