Justice and Security (Northern Ireland) Bill

Before I respond, perhaps I may point something out. I know that the noble Lord, Lord Lester, will have read the report of our proceedings on Monday, but I should mention that my noble and learned friend the Attorney-General gave a clear commitment that if Members of the Committee require any meetings on Clauses 1 to 12, which, I am pleased to say, he is taking through the House, he would be very happy to see them before the next stage of the Bill. As the noble Baroness said, as did the noble Lord in similar terms in relation to his amendment, Amendment No. 46 provides for the expiry of these powers after 12 months, unless an order subject to the draft affirmative procedure is made. It also includes a power for the Secretary of State to provide by order subject to the draft affirmative procedure that the powers in Clauses 20 to 39 shall cease to have effect or come back into force for a period not exceeding12 months. Amendment No. 47 provides for the expiry of the powers on 1 December 2008, although with a power of extension for one year. Put simply, we do not believe that yearly renewal debates of these powers will be an effective use of this House’s time. Parliamentary scrutiny will continue to be provided through the laying of the independent reviewer’s report in the House, and through parliamentary Questions and debates which may be asked and called for at any time and which I or someone else will be responsible for answering on behalf of the Government. The House will still be able to hold the Government to account on this issue—that is the crucial point; as Ministers, we are responsible to the House. Given that we all agree about the huge progress that Northern Ireland has made, why do we not impose some limit on the duration of these powers? We believe that the powers in the Bill are the absolute minimum necessary for the police and Armed Forces to operate effectively in Northern Ireland. That environment includes an ongoing threat from public order incidents which are on a different scale from those in the rest of the UK, the specific residual Irish terrorist threat and the threat posed by paramilitaries moving into organised crime. Although we expect the powers to be used rarely, they are just as critical in ensuring the safety and security of the people of Northern Ireland when they are used occasionally as when they are used frequently. I do not expect to see the remaining threat regress significantly any time soon, although I very much hope that I and the Government are wrong in that assessment. We would argue that these reduced police and Armed Forces powers, balanced by appropriate safeguards, are not now so exceptional that they require Parliament’s consideration on a 12-monthly basis, as well as the scrutiny of an independent reviewer, whose report will be laid before Parliament on a 12-monthly basis. Amendment No. 46 also provides the Secretary of State with the power to bring these police and Army powers in and out of force by an order subject to the draft affirmative procedure, whereas Clause 40 simply provides for the repeal of these clauses by order. That is because we believe that, once a power is deemed to be no longer necessary, it should be taken out of use without the possibility of resurrection by secondary legislation, which, in a way, is the test of normality. That would be the Holy Grail: we would remove them from the statute book rather than bring them in and out. The Bill provides a power for the Secretary of State to repeal the Armed Forces and police powers by order. I can assure the Committee that the reports of the independent reviewer and the continuing monitoring of the use of the powers will provide sufficient transparency in relation to the ongoing need for their use. The Secretary of State will seek to ensure that the powers remain at the bare minimum necessary for the operational effectiveness of the police and the Armed Forces by repealing any powers that become unnecessary.