Justice and Security (Northern Ireland) Bill

I am very grateful in particular for the intervention of the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, because he made my point for me. The fact that someone is a first or second cousin does not tell you the answer to the question. The noble Lord asks: never mind about Derbyshire or Northern Ireland, where do you draw the line? That line is drawn when the second condition is met—when the DPP is satisfied that, in view of the particular condition that has been found, there is a risk that the administration of justice might be impaired. The noble Baroness, Lady Harris, gave two examples. If there were second cousins who were very close, the DPP might be satisfied that there was a risk that if one of them was on trial, the other would go about the business of intimidating jurors, and that in view of that relationship—albeit the relative was only a second cousin—there would be a relevant risk. In her other example—first cousins who had never spoken because there had been a family rift—the DPP would not take the view that there was a risk due to that relationship. It is important to take fully into account the second condition. What worries me about putting in a word like ““significant”” is that one could end up with an artificial definition of what ““significant”” meant—for example, a ““significant”” relative is anyone up to a first cousin or second cousin, but not a nephew by marriage—and one could end up with a set of conditions in identifying someone. The real issue that one should consider is whether, in view of the fact that there is a relationship, there is a risk that the administration of justice might be impaired. I do not believe that the DPP is hell-bent on asking for a non-jury trial in every case in which one of the conditions is met. I am sure that that will not be the position at all and that the DPP will apply the conditions with a great deal of care and attention. I appreciate the fact that the amendment is much more helpful than the one brought forward in another place and recognises that one needs to have some provision in relation to relatives. One does not want to put an unnecessary and possibly artificial burden of definition on this test when the key question will be whether, in view of that, the DPP is satisfied that there is a risk to the administration of justice. I invite the noble Baroness to reflect on that.