Serious Crime Bill [HL]

I hope that I shall not disappoint, although I fear I may. The order-making power to amend Schedule 1 is necessary for several reasons, and I must resist Amendment No. 47, and Amendment No. 129 which is consequential upon it. As all noble Lords who have spoken on this have said, Schedule 1 sets out a list of offences considered serious for the purposes of this Bill. I appreciate that people may have different views as to what constitutes ““serious””, but this is our thinking thus far, although we are always open to new ideas. As such, Schedule 1 provides significant certainty as to the types of offences against which these orders will be used. It also provides the framework—the noble Baroness, Lady Carnegy of Lour, sought a framework—against which the courts will exercise their discretion in Clause 2(2)(b). Under Clause 2(2)(b), the court must consider that an offence is serious enough to be treated as if it were specified in the schedule. The offences in the schedule thus provide guidance as to the level of seriousness we are concerned with. It is not possible to say what areas of criminality serious criminals will move into. Nor is it possible to say whether offences will be created which it would be appropriate to use these orders against. As a result, it is necessary to include an order-making power, so that the Home Secretary may amend the schedule without the need for primary legislation. I am sure that all noble Lords appreciate that the criminal mind is imaginative and always coming up with new ways around things. For that very good reason, we must have the flexibility to stay ahead of the game. The noble Baroness, Lady Anelay, drew attention to the Delegated Powers Committee report. I was not going to refer to it but, since she has, it is perhaps fair to say that this is not an unusual provision. It is common to include a provision to allow a list of offences to be kept up to date in the way that we suggest, and the power is subject to affirmative resolution, as has been acknowledged. Any order within that will of course be debated by both Houses of Parliament. It is not unknown for these orders to be contested like that. There is an adequate accounting mechanism, checking the importance or otherwise of amendments brought forward through the order-making power. We resist the amendment for those reasons, and I hope that the noble Baroness will reflect further upon them and withdraw her amendment today.