Prevention of Terrorism Act 2005 (Continuance in force of sections 1 to 9) Order 2007

My Lords I have no idea. All I can tell your Lordships is that we have the report. It is being actively considered and consulted upon now. I know that those who participatein Chatham House discussions are all absolutely trustworthy and would never breach the confidence which has been placed in them. So of course I can say nothing about that. As part of the wider counter-terrorism review, we are looking at the capabilities and resources. We have been looking to see if there are any changes needed to our existing legislation. We have identified some areas that need strengthening and will bring forward legislation to address those in the future. Since the former Home Secretary announced the intention to bring forward a further counter-terrorism Bill this year, we have conducted a fundamental review of our counter-terrorism capabilities and resources and are looking at all the issues in order to ensure we have the tools necessary to combat matters with a greater degree of utility. The Government do not accept the thrust of the JCHR report, which is that the control order system is not necessary because not enough has been done to strengthen the ability to prosecute terrorists and terrorist suspects. As I have already made plain, prosecution remains the Government’s first choice. Since the Home Secretary announced his intention to bring forward a further counter-terrorism Bill this year, we have considered the issues in relation to intercept, to post-charge, and what other changes there will need to be. All those issues are under consideration. The Government do not accept that the current control orders are in breach of Article 5 of the ECHR and therefore we do not agree that derogation is necessary. However, as I said at the beginning of the debate, each order will be specific to the suspect concerned and they are individually tailored. So there will be cases where the control order will have very few conditions and there will be others where there are more. Getting that line between what is acceptable and non-acceptable is always an issue of judgment, fact and degree. As a regime, the Government do not accept that control orders per se are in breach of Article 5 or Article 6. In relation to due process—due process concerns were raised by JCHR—the Government do not accept that they apply. We remain of the view that control orders are ECHR compatible. The noble Lord, Lord Kingsland, and a number of other noble Lords talked aboutthe judgment made by Mr Justice Beatson that was upheld in the Court of Appeal. Those issues will be actively debated before the judicial committee of this House. The suggestion of the noble Lord, Lord Carlile, about continued investigation is being looked at. The judgment in Re. E enables us to look at the issue of prosecution. For the purposes of completeness, I should say that I heard what the noble Lord, Lord Kingsland, said in relation to the judgment in E. One of the issues before the court was whether there had been a proper investigation of whether prosecution was proper. It was the opinion of the police that there remained no prospect of prosecuting E for a terrorist-related crime. In the light of the court’s ruling about the possible relevance of the Belgian court’s judgment in relation to this individual, the Home Office asked the police and the Crown Prosecution Service to review the position again, including those judgments, to consider whether there were grounds for prosecuting E for a terrorism-related offence. The Crown Prosecution Service has now reviewed the material and has confirmed that there is insufficient admissible evidence to prosecute E for a terrorist-related offence. That is the position. The Government’s comment on absconders is that we have the difficulty that if the conditions placed on individuals do not wholly control their ability to leave the jurisdiction or leave their homes one has to accept that some will do just that. There is a dilemma between imposing restrictions that will so restrict the liberty of the individual that they are inconsistent with ECHR and imposing restrictions that will mean that one can appropriately monitor where individuals are, what they do and where they go. If we have a system that does not rigidly control every moment of their day, one has to accept that the natural consequence is that some will abscond and cause difficulty. That is the balance. We have had a robust and insightful debate, but I invite the House to say that this order should be renewed. The noble Lord, Lord Dholakia, having had his day, can be content with that, and we can come back to these issues on another day.