Debate on the Address

I agree with a great deal of what the right hon. and learned Member for Devizes (Mr. Ancram) said, including on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, but I want to concentrate on Iraq. My view—and it was reflected in the way that I voted in 2003—is that if Saddam could satisfy the UN weapons inspectors that the regime had no weapons of mass destruction, there could be no basis for war whatever. We know that he had no such weapons, but clearly the weapons inspectors were not fully satisfied, and I am aware that they wanted more time. They could not say that they were satisfied with what the regime said, or that what the regime said was true. Very few people, including Members of the House, believed Saddam when he said that he had no WMD. Many of us took the view that if the invasion went ahead, as it did eventually, it would destroy one of the most murderous dictatorships around. There have been many evil dictatorships since 1945, and Saddam’s was undoubtedly one of the worst. The other evening, on a Channel 4 programme, we saw corpses that were located after the mass murder that had been conducted by the regime in the 1980s. Many other murders have been committed by that regime. Who does not welcome the fact that the regime has gone? Surely, no one can question the fact if there had been no invasion Saddam would still be in power, his sons would follow him and, for all we know, once the international pressure was off the regime would have again started to manufacture weapons of mass destruction. Why not? He certainly had such weapons previously. Some positive things have occurred, as has been acknowledged. Free elections have taken place in Iraq and a Government were duly elected. Other measures have been initiated, trade unions have been legalised, and there were the beginnings of a society with civil liberties and the rule of law. However, we all have to acknowledge that things have not turned out that way. Far from it. As has been said, hardly a day goes by without the brutal murder of a large number of civilians. Time and again, bombs go off in marketplaces with the aim of causing maximum death and suffering to wholly innocent people going about their daily business—shopping or going to and from work. Those are the people who are being murdered. It is an unusual day if we do not hear news of further terrible executions and mass murder. The occupation troops cannot prevent that; if they could, they would obviously do so. Our troops have enough difficulty trying to protect themselves. Nor can the elected Government do anything about the situation. They are impotent; there is no way that they can undertake the necessary security precautions for their people. Indeed, it is suspected that some of the police—and, perhaps, some Iraqi troops—are involved in sectarian murders. There is a tendency to tell us how many Iraqis have died over the past three years. We could argue about the numbers, although I do not particularly want to do so, but those who talk about the number of people who have died should point out how they died. Since the end of the invasion, in the main, people have died as a result of terrorist action—it was not due to the occupation troops; it was outright murder by terrorists. The last thing those terrorists want is a democratic society in Iraq. As I said in my intervention during the Prime Minister’s speech last Wednesday, we need an urgent reassessment of whether British troops should remain in Iraq. I make no apology for how I voted on Iraq. I do not say, as some are alleged to have said, that I trusted the Prime Minister—we are all adult in this place and we can make up our own minds. I certainly did, for the reasons that I stated. If I felt that British troops staying on in Iraq could bring about anything that approached a decent democratic society, I should not have the slightest hesitation in saying so. However, I do not believe that the British or any occupation troops can bring about any such solution; it is up to the Iraqis themselves and we should recognise that. I agree with my right hon. Friend the Member for Islwyn (Mr. Touhig) and others that it is no longer any use to say that we must wait until the job is finished. What do we mean by that, for heaven’s sake? Another argument is that we will have to stay until the Iraqi Government ask us to go, but obviously a Government who have no real power and cannot rule in any meaningful sense will not say to British, American or any other troops, ““Please go””. It would not make sense. We have to recognise the situation as it is and not as we want it to be. It is argued that if we leave now or in the near future it will make the situation worse, but that could be said at any time in the future—for example, next year, the year after or in 2009. At what stage will we realise that we need a continued reduction of British troops leading to their leaving Iraq entirely? I do not imagine that anyone agrees that we should leave immediately, but it should certainly be our aim for the very near future. Majority opinion went along with the war, and even when no weapons of mass destruction were found most people in Britain understood the nature of the regime that had been destroyed. All the indications now are that most people in this country and the United States—reference has been made to the Congressional elections—can see no purpose in the troops staying in Iraq for much longer. It would indeed be a mistake to maintain the current position indefinitely. We need to make preparations to leave. Public support for our troops remaining in Iraq is draining away and the Government need to recognise that.