Communities and Local Government/Environment, Food and Rural Affairs

I greatly enjoyed the contribution of the hon. Member for Sheffield, Attercliffe (Mr. Betts), as he quoted several aspects of Liberal Democrat policy. I welcome his conversion with regard to some of the debates that I have had with him over the years, especially when he was leader of Sheffield city council. Most of my contribution will not be on the main element of tonight’s debate, as it is customary that Back Benchers may speak on other aspects of the Queen’s Speech. I shall confine most of my comments to the human tissue and embryo proposals in the Queen’s Speech, which did not get much attention on Thursday. I compliment the hon. Member for Cities of London and Westminster (Mr. Field) on his contribution, because, without such debate, and without such an element of scepticism, we simply walk straight forward. What I liked most about the Stern report was the way in which it tried to analyse the economic situation and how it would develop. If the hon. Gentleman reads nothing else, I suggest that he read chapter 1, in which Stern assesses the available scientific evidence about climate change. Stern does not say ““I am a scientist: I know the answers.”” He says, ““I have looked at all the evidence that is available, and have reached the following conclusion.”” Whether the earth heats up by 2°, 3° or 5°—Stern’s worst-case scenario—we must have a starting point. We have had a superb debate today. The right hon. Members for Fylde (Mr. Jack) and for Oxford, East (Mr. Smith), and, in particular, the hon. Member for Scunthorpe (Mr. Morley), demonstrated what the debate should be about. At the end of the day it is not about targets, no matter how wedded each of our parties may be to them; it is about the larger objective of doing something about what many of us regard as the greatest threat to our planet. We have heard some interesting speeches about the local government Bill, but it was disappointing to note the consuming interest of the hon. Member for Meriden (Mrs. Spelman) in organisation. Although it criticises various elements of reorganisation, the Tory party itself seems to have a consuming interest in yet another reorganisation. I smiled at the new title ““The Permissive State””, which struck me as an interesting concept—as did ““structural fetishism””, which I also quite liked. As I have lived through four attempted reorganisations in North Yorkshire over the past years, the thought of yet more reorganisation of local government fills me with dread. I hope that the Bill will allow local authorities to make those decisions, and I hope that at the end of the debate the Minister will reassure us that unitary authorities will not be forced on communities that do not want them. My main purpose is to discuss the human tissue and embryos Bill, to which the Queen's Speech refers. I understand that there is to be a draft Bill, but that it will not be tabled until March. I can say on behalf of the Select Committee on Science and Technology that we would like very much to play a part in the process. Although on Thursday the draft Bill received little more than a cursory mention from the Secretary of State for Health, and indeed all Front Benchers, it is enormously significant to the House and our communities—not simply childless couples but the thousands of would-be parents who are carriers of defective genes—and to the hugely promising research programmes that are linked to therapeutic and cloning and embryonic stem cell lines. The House will know that the Select Committee, led by the hon. Member for Norwich, North (Dr. Gibson) and me, has been involved in the Bill’s progress from the beginning. It has been a long time coming. Indeed, it was the Government’s failure to review the legislation on human reproductive technologies that led to the last Committee’s announcement in 2003 of an inquiry into the subject, and subsequently to the Government’s review of the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Act 1990. Our Committee’s report appeared in March 2005, just before the general election, and the Department of Health then issued its own consultation paper in August. The current Committee has continued to keep a watching brief, and we have had a debate on the subject in the Chamber. The Committee took further evidence from the Minister of State, Department of Health, the hon. Member for Don Valley (Caroline Flint)—the Minister responsible for public health—in July this year. We urged the Government to produce firm proposals, and we are pleased that at last we have been listened to. Given the current controversy and wildly inaccurate reporting of proposals by researchers from King’s College London and the North-East England Stem Cell Institute in Newcastle to create hybrid embryos using human cells and animal eggs to develop new treatments for diseases such as Parkinson’s, stroke and Alzheimer’s, I hope that the draft Bill will help to bolster confidence in that ground-breaking field of research. The Bill is necessary to facilitate the replacement of the two existing regulators, the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority and the Human Tissue Authority, with one new authority, the regulatory authority for tissue and embryos. However, I hope that the Government will reconsider their decision not to include the work of the Human Genetics Commission in that of the new organisation. If public confidence in our scientists is to be maintained, there must be a transparent mechanism to provide advice on issues with ethical or societal implications, and that should not be the role of the regulator. Equally, Parliament should have a greater role in outlining the ethical parameters for the regulator. The public health Minister has indicated that she is exploring new ways in which Parliament can have a greater say when science changes. I hope that she will examine seriously our proposals for a Standing Committee on bio-ethics. It will be interesting to see how we can draw the line between parliamentary oversight and parliamentary interference. The draft Bill, however, is intended to go beyond the establishment of a new regulatory structure. The Leader of the House’s website tells us that its key objectives are to"““ensure that the law that regulates human reproductive technologies is updated to reflect new technologies””," to"““promote public confidence in human reproductive technologies through effective regulatory controls””," and"““to ensure that the law takes account of changes in public attitude since the current legislation was formulated in the 1980s””." That sign that the Government are prepared to use the Bill to take on some of the concerns expressed in our report and in public consultation is welcome. One essential area in which the parameters need to be established more clearly in the legislation involves the use of pre-implantation genetic diagnosis, the technique that allows parents to reduce the risk of passing on serious hereditary conditions and diseases by screening embryos. Abnormal embryos are then not implanted. Developed in the 1980s, computer techniques allow screening for virtually all known genetic disorders, including cystic fibrosis and sickle cell anaemia. Yet there is significant controversy over the technique, and some, such as the pressure group ““Comment On Ethics””, fear that it will lead to designer babies. The question for Parliament is: how do we allow researchers to respond quickly to new developments while retaining public confidence? There are also issues surrounding sex selection of embryos, which is not subject to an explicit statutory ban. The HFEA permits it only for serious gender-related genetic conditions when the selection is carried out by means of PGD; but sex selection can be achieved by other means, such as sperm sorting, which fall outside the remit of the HFEA. Strong views have been expressed on that practice as well. The Minister told us that her Department was"““minded to pursue a clear and explicit ban in the law which covers all assisted reproductive treatments in relation to sex selection, where it is not for serious medical conditions””." We will be interested to see how that is framed in the legislation, and how the ban can be implemented in the internet age. The most recent issue to hit the press has been the creation of human-cow hybrids for research purposes, or indeed the creation of embryos from stem cells for research purposes. I believe that there is clear evidence that the legislative framework needs to catch up both with the developments in technology and with public opinion. There are many—including Lord Winston and, indeed, my hon. Friend the Member for Oxford, West and Abingdon (Dr. Harris)—who say that further clarification is not necessary when the resulting hybrid is 99.9 per cent. human. I beg to differ. Medical research in the United Kingdom in this field is ahead of that in the rest of the world, because we have always taken public opinion with us. We do not wish to hold back scientific advances, but the public must retain confidence in the system. There are one or two other issues that appear not to be in the draft Bill, but could justifiably be included. The first is the question of donor anonymity, a hugely important issue referred to by my hon. Friend the Member for Northavon (Steve Webb) in a speech on 16 November. The fact that the number of sperm donors has dropped alarmingly following the abolition of anonymity in April 2005 must be revisited. Secondly, there is the matter of abortion time limits, which the Government understandably seem less than keen to reopen. I wholeheartedly support the view of the hon. Member for South Cambridgeshire (Mr. Lansley) that it should not be dealt with in the draft Bill. Indeed, it was a mistake to include amendments to the Abortion Act 1967 in the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Act 1990. Nor should we attempt to change the law via the somewhat naive ten-minute rule, under the Termination of Pregnancy Bill introduced by the hon. Member for Mid-Bedfordshire (Mrs. Dorries). What is required is a review of the scientific, medical and social changes in the evidence on abortion since the last legislation 16 years ago. While a private Member’s Bill would need to be introduced to change the law, without a detailed examination of the evidence, the debate will generate more heat than light. I am sorry for interrupting the proceedings to introduce another issue, but I think that the human tissue and embryos Bill is incredibly important and I hope that, when it comes before the House, it will the receive the consideration that it deserves.