Local Probation Boards (Appointment and Miscellaneous Provisions) (Amendment) Regulations 2006

My Lords, as always, I begin by thanking the Minister for setting out the Government’s stall. During this debate, he will have felt that there was a signal lack of support for him in the Chamber. There is strength of feeling, and it was expressed with military succinctness by the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, who said that the regulations are ““perverse, shoddy and unnecessary””. The noble Baroness, Lady Stern, who has professional expertise in these matters, said thatthe regulations were based on a profound misunderstanding of what makes probation services successful. I agree with the noble Lord and the noble Baroness. There was concern about the lack of formal consultation. All noble Lords echoed the belief that magistrates and councillors are of such value that they ought to be on probation boards rather than the vague ““maybe, maybe not””. Such people bring local experience to the criminal justice system and probation boards will be much poorer without them. We also focused on the issue of time. While the debate was going on, I reflected on the procedure with regard to statutory instruments, which was raised by the noble Earl, Lord Erroll, and by my noble friend Lord Eccles. This instrument was subject to the negative resolution procedure. When primary legislation goes through the House, we anticipate that the negative resolution procedure will be reserved for essentially non-controversial matters, technical matters or matters that been fully rehearsed in the legislation upon which they hang. Therefore, it can be said that when the House passes primary legislation it gives permission for what will follow that is foreseeable at that time. The trouble is that when the Criminal Justice and Court Services Act was passed in 2000, the way in which these regulations are now being used was not foreseen. Therefore, it cannot fairly be said that the House gave its permission then for this kind of development. That throws up what could be a matter of concern in our scrutiny of what should be left to the negative resolution procedure in future legislation. I will be very happy to discuss that with the noble Earl, Lord Erroll, on future occasions. The Minister stated the Government’s argument about having a flexible board that responds to modern needs. Probation boards are not trying to be inflexible or wilfully to prevent the delivery of effective service. They are trying to deliver an effective service, but the Government are trying to steer them in a different direction by the way in which their membership will be set up. On the size of boards, the Minister said that the Government are trying to add expertise, but they are doing that by removing the right of magistrates and councillors to be on the board. There are a lot of contradictions here. I find these regulations extremely unsatisfactory. In Lords’ language, that means I wish I could tear them up and throw them out. I have been tempted to do just that by one or two noble Lords who have asked about a Division today. I am not the usual channels, and I do not want to risk their wrath just yet; I would like to live a couple of days beyond the Queen’s Speech. Of course, it would be gross discourtesy to the House if I were to call a Division without giving prior warning of so doing, although by doing so, I could perhaps have had even more supporters for my Motion today. The serious reason I do not wish to divide the House today is that I take consultation seriously. These matters need to be thoroughly discussed in the context of the new management of offenders Bill, when we ought to see whether the Government's premise today is as flawed as I believe it to be, or whether they can come up with any credible arguments. I know that the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, was worried that if we allow these provisions to go through, the door is closed. I looked at the original drafting of the Bill that we saw two long years ago when it drifted through this House briefly at First Reading, received a Second Reading date and was then abandoned by the Government. I am advised that under that original drafting—if we see that Bill back again—we might find a way of tabling an amendment within scope that could rid this place of these regulations. We should be able to give this House a proper opportunity to discuss them then. So, only against that background and my future hope of ripping these provisions up do I leave them not quite in shreds, but beg leave to withdraw the Motion. Motion, by leave, withdrawn.