Violent Crime Reduction Bill

My Lords, I am not so sure that I am that trusting. I thank all noble Lords who have taken part in the debate—my noble friend, the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, and the Minister. None of the three responses to the amendment takes enough cognisance of the fact that intimidation in peaceful protesting is quite a feature. I know, as I guard jealously the right to protest, that I would not take part in a protest march if there were people all around me wearing masks—because I would be intimidated for the very reason which forms the basis of this amendment. It would be obvious that some of the people wearing masks were intent on hiding their identity. Why should one want to hide one’s identity in a free country where we are allowed—encouraged in fact—to protest in freedom? It is a point worth making. I absolutely agree with my noble friend Lady Anelay that the drafting is weak. I do not think for one moment that the amendment was drafted correctly, but I do think it was wise to try to establish the feelings of the House. There have been many occasions when the House has suddenly come to the conclusion that the drafting of amendments and clauses in Bills is weak, and they have been taken away and drafted again. I am not going into chapter and verse because we have all been here long enough to know that. The noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, said the provision would cause difficulties and asks why we would want to ban the wearing of Blair and Bush masks. I say that there should be a banning of all masks. Why were people in this country able to protest for all those years—and I have given examples from the beginning of the 1900s through to the 1980s and 1990s? People did not wear masks then. The practice has crept in, and why should we allow it? It is like everything else—an insidious introduction of one thing then becomes the norm. I do not think it is the norm for the very reason I have already stated—that of intimidation. Men do not feel anything like as intimidated as women; large women do not feel anything like as intimidated as small women, who do not want to take part in protests when they are surrounded by big hulks wearing nasty masks. Your Lordships should put yourselves into the position of people trying to take part in a peaceful protest. If 20 people are wearing Bush masks, there could be a pile-up in which somebody goes for somebody else and causes grievous bodily harm. How on earth would the police be able to identify the perpetrator of the violence? I still think that there is a problem here. The Minister was very gentle with me about this, knowing that it is a pretty dodgy amendment. But I come back to this point: how can the police get at these people if they are masked? I can see a reductio ad absurdum situation in which a lot of people are wearing Bush and Blair masks. I do not think that there will be any Groucho Marx masks with the red nose and bow ties—they are not intimidating. If we allow this to happen, we will find ourselves, like many other countries, not able to do anything about violent protests. I understand all the arguments that have been made against the amendment. I pray in aid the fact that Lord Williams of Mostyn said that he was warming to it. There is a feeling in the House, even among those who disagree with the amendment, that it may have some merit. I would like to think that somewhere along the line, this issue might be aired again and action taken. I pray that we do not have a raft of violent demonstrations in which people are badly hurt and no arrests are made because masked perpetrators cannot be identified. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.