Violent Crime Reduction Bill

My Lords, I am, as ever, grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay, for giving me an opportunity to clarify some of my comments from an earlier stage in the Bill, which have been interpreted in a way that suggests that we want to put in place a scheme that would operate unfairly; clearly we do not. We want something that is workable and which everyone feels comfortable and confident in supporting. I hope that what I say on the amendments can offer some reassurance, and I am sure that it will. Amendment No. 17 would oblige local authorities to determine whether individual pubs and clubs had directly contributed to alcohol-related crime and disorder before including them in the scope of the alcohol disorder zone charge. That would, in effect, mean that the local authority would have to establish a clear link to the particular pubs, clubs and off-licences that inebriated offenders had patronised. When the amendment was debated in Committee, I said that I believed that it was, in general terms, unworkable, and I remain of that view. As we recognised in Committee, there is a tension with alcohol disorder zones. They will inevitably include some responsible operators. That has been the theme of much of our discussion with the trade associations representing both the off-licence and on-licence operators. I concede willingly that their concern is understandable, particularly at a time when the trade is taking big steps to raise operating standards, which we welcome. We welcome the expressions of concern by the trade associations, which have helpfully been given full voice on all sides of the Chamber this afternoon. I offer the House assurances about the way in which the provision will be used. First, as I made clear, ADZs will be there as a last resort, to secure collective responsibility for alcohol-related crime and disorder in a locality when all other measures have failed. That action must include using the full force of the provisions in the Licensing Act 2003. Where evidence reveals a few clearly identifiable problem premises, local authorities and the police should not reach for an ADZ; the Licensing Act should be used. Alcohol disorder zones become an option where this and other interventions have been tried and there is still a more general problem. ADZs cannot and will not become a routine intervention. I believe that our work on alcohol disorder zones with representatives from local authorities and the police bears this out. As ADZs will not become a routine intervention, I can inform the House that we will review their operation two years following their implementation. The review will be undertaken earlier, if necessary—for example, if we find that their use escalates out of control, which we will take action to rectify. In relation to charging premises, we recognise that not all premises should pay the same. We propose a national charging framework that will be structured and calibrated so that account will be taken of the risk that individual premises pose. This will be linked to the level of service that they receive and the amount that they pay. For example, a small pub on the corner closing at 11 pm will pay much less than a large bar closing at 3 am. I accept that that does not precisely address what the noble Lords are seeking in their amendment, but constructing the charge in this way will allow us to gear both the charge and the service received to reflect the different nature of licensed premises. There will not be a flat-rate charge for all. Opposition Amendments Nos. 19, 20, 21 and 28 deal with exemptions. Clause 15(6) provides for the only exemptions from the ADZ charge that can be granted. Premises must pass both a principal use test and a patronage test to qualify for an exemption. The amendments would provide for more exemptions through regulations, and premises might not necessarily have to pass more than one test to claim the exemption. Alcohol disorder zones are intended to encourage licensees within the designated locality to work together to reduce alcohol-related crimeand disorder. We recognise that there should be exemptions from the charge. The intention ofClause 15(6) is to provide a sensible basis for decisions to be made around both use of the premises and their patronage. We need to go no further than that. Perhaps I may give an illustration of how we expect the exemptions to work in practice. We have made it clear that our policy intention is for restaurants and hotels to be exempt from the charge and we have assured the British Hospitality Association on that count. The Bill also provides for discounts to be granted on the charge. I can inform the House that when we ask Parliament toconsider regulations, we will propose discounts of up to 100 per cent of the charge in certain circumstances. Local authorities will have to establish a time for ADZ services to commence, which would need to be evidence-based in relation to when crime and disorder occurred. Premises that closed before that would receive a 100 per cent discount. I believe that that addresses the points raised by stakeholders, including the Wine and Spirit Trade Association, which was concerned that premises might pay for services that were delivered after they closed and for which no direct benefit was received. That also addresses some of the points made by the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, in Committee and by the noble Lord, Lord Graham of Edmonton. No doubt there could be an interesting debate on whether a 100 per cent discount is an exemption, but I am sure that noble Lords will not be too disappointed if I fail to enter that semantic discussion. Through the discounting arrangements, we will be seeking to deliver on some of the issues that lie behind the amendments. I am sure that the noble Baroness will recognise much of what I have said from discussions that she has had with Tony McNulty, the Minister of State at the Home Office. He also wrote to her on 11 October detailing these and other matters. I have placed a copy of that letter in the Library of the House so that all noble Lords can have sight of it. The noble Baroness also raised a point about Boots the chemist, which I understand perfectly well. In fact, I have a horrible feeling that at some stage some years ago I may even have purchased one of those glorious packs to which she referred. I probably bought it as a present that no one wanted to receive. In the context of exemptions, it was mentioned that the noble Baroness had been approached by Boots the chemist, which was concerned that it might be subject to charging in an ADZ. As she explained, Boots sells alcoholic gifts at Christmas. As the correspondence points out, the noble Baroness can be assured that local authorities will make decisions on exemptions on a case-by-case basis. I place on record our view that it is extremely unlikely that Boots will be caught by the charge simply because it sells seasonal gifts. On the basis of its business model, I cannot see that the sale of alcohol is the principal use to which its premises are put or that its patronage is focused mostly on the sale of alcohol. That assurance is given in correspondence and it is one that I am happy to repeat from the Dispatch Box because I think that it might help our deliberations and assist noble Lords who may be contemplating pushing the amendment to a vote. I hope that the amendment will be withdrawn.