Terrorism Act 2000 (Proscribed Organisations) (Amendment) Order 2006

My Lords, I, too, thank the Minister for introducing the order. It is impossible to have a detailed discussion about the merits of proscribing these four groups to assess whether it is right to proscribe them. Of necessity, the Government must work on the accuracy of the intelligence that they receive. It is difficult for those of us who are out of the loop, so to speak, to make meaningful comment about the individual organisations. Notwithstanding what the Minister told us about the order, we can ask what the organisations have been up to in this country. Have other European Union member states, for example, imposed proscriptions on them? For that matter, have any other Government asked us to proscribe them? Clearly, if there has been evidence of any of the organisations being involved in terrorist activity on the ground, we will support the Government. But with this order, we enter into the realm of glorification of terrorism, with the two organisations Al-Ghurabaa and the Saved Sect. It would be interesting to know the Government’s reasons for proscribing them, although the Minister has given some explanation. I have been unable to find out much on either organisation, so we must trust the Government’s deeper knowledge of them at this stage. It is very difficult, however, to keep track of the plethora of organisations, which seem to spring up daily. Is the Minister satisfied that all the organisations in this country that appear to have links to terrorism are being monitored? The converse of that—are the Government also testing the appropriateness of organisations on the proscribed list? Will they, for instance, on humanitarian grounds, look again at the proscription of the People’s Mujaheddin of Iran, the PMOI, whose leaders and supporters worldwide are seeking democratic government in Iran? For example, among many state-initiated atrocities, Iran has apparently persuaded the Prime Minister of Iraq, Mr Nouri al-Maliki, to end the presence of the PMOI—who are protected persons under the fourth Geneva Convention and so entitled to political asylum—in the northern Iraq camp Ashraf City. Iraq, on Iran’s instigation, has cut off food and water for the many women and children living there. Do the Government feel that it is time to look again at the proscription of the PMOI? I simply ask the question. Of course, it is of the utmost importance that we protect our citizens from the very real and present danger of terrorism, but we must use the considerable powers that the Government now have as carefully as possible. There are apparently many connected parts to the proscribed organisations, and perhaps one way of disrupting their activities would be to do what we do so well in Northern Ireland—seize their assets in this country, shut down their websites, as the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay, has suggested, and prosecute for incitement. Those are all lesser, yet firm, acts than acts of proscription, which should apply only to the most serious terrorist organisations. I will end by quoting my honourable friend the Member for Somerton and Frome speaking in another place: "““We must be careful not to assume, simply because we do not like—and may abhor—an organisation, that we, as a state, should stop it being able to undertake its functions in this country. We should always, when possible, use the normal criminal law to ensure that people are charged with proper offences in court and that, if they are found guilty, they pay the appropriate penalty””.—[Official Report, Commons, 20/7/06; col. 503.]"